Final changes for French deck.

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morpher
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby morpher » Tue 7 Jun 2016 20:33

Razzmann wrote:The VDAA really needs a suppression buff in some sort or another, it really takes ages for it to stun helicopter. Even Skrezhezehzehezets are better at stunning. DPS is also pretty bad.


isn't there like a bug in the VDAA splash damage? I can't remember where but I read nandemoni writing about it.

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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Razzmann » Tue 7 Jun 2016 20:47

morpher wrote:
Razzmann wrote:The VDAA really needs a suppression buff in some sort or another, it really takes ages for it to stun helicopter. Even Skrezhezehzehezets are better at stunning. DPS is also pretty bad.


isn't there like a bug in the VDAA splash damage? I can't remember where but I read nandemonai writing about it.

IIRC he said that it did not get buffed with the SPAAG bug recently. But don't quote me on that.

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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby FoxZz » Tue 28 Jun 2016 09:18

I've decided to bring some images to illustrate the proposals I've been making here :

Most important proposals :

AMX-10RC (recon) : (Rof, accuracy and price increased)
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AMX-10RC SB : (Rof and accuracy increased)
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ERC-90 Sagaie : (Rof increased, price decreased)
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Commando Marine : (rifle standardised as a short battle rifle, mg accuracy and stabs increased)
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Base Legion and Rima : (mg accuracy increased)
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Jaguar : (speed and turn radius decreased, price increased)
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Chasseurs 85 : (mg accuracy increased)
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Leclerc : (AP, side AV, speed and price increased to match other 2 per card super-heavies)
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Rafale : (Fuel value set accordingly to its real life fuel value, missile count tweeked to match its IRL loadouts)
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Last edited by FoxZz on Tue 28 Jun 2016 09:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby FoxZz » Tue 28 Jun 2016 09:27

Here is some secondary proposals on the AMX tank line :

The AMX tanks AP is currently under-modelled, especially the 30B heat "obus G" which was very advanced, I've corrected that, morover, AMX-30B2 and Brennus need Medium optics because of the thermals they had, finally, the AMX-40 has been tweeked to be more realistic, its modern FCS is represented with a buff to stabs and it armor has been slighlty buffed, since it could whistand T55 shots on the front. Also, the autocannon accuracy has been increased to represent the stability of the platform as well as making those AC actually usefull.

AMX-30B : (AP and A/C buff)
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AMX-30B2 : (AP, optics and A/C buff, price nerf to 45 pints(forgot to do it on the card))
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AMX-30B2 Brennus : (optics buff)
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AMX-40 : ( stabs, front AV buffed, price nerfed)
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Furthermore, the AMX32 and AMX40 should be allowed in the motorised deck.

I've also made plane and missiles tweeks to made them more authentic :
First, the Magic II missile is the equicalent of the AIM-9M, not the AIM9L as currently displayed, it has been changed. Than, the SUPER-530F and D carry a 30kg warhead, which grants them a 6 HE value. I've modified the planes accordingly.
Also, I've tweeked some planes stats make them more realistic.

Mirage 2000C RDI : (missiles mod, price increased, should be set at 1 card of 2 veteran) :
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Mirage F1C-200 : (missiles mod, turn radius decreased speed and price increased) :
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Mirage F1C : (missiles mod, turn radius decreased speed and price increased) :
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Mirage F1CT : (AP increased, missile mod, turn radius decreased) :
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Mirage IIIC renamed Mirage IIIE : (turn radius increased, ECM increased) :
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby FoxZz » Tue 28 Jun 2016 09:54

Lastly, some units cards that brake the rule of the no re-roll, nor new units as welll as unlikely and less important things. Such changes, would greatly enhance the deck :

Leclerc T1 : (First Leclerc prototypes)
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Etendard IVM : (Glorious rockets)
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Chasseurs 85' APILAS : (Chasseurs 85' get the most powerfull RPG available, the mass produced APILAS to deal with soviet armoured hordes).
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Chasseurs LRAC : (Chasseurs get the RPG they should get and which was the main one in the 1975 french army).
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Rimas 85 : (APILAS AP buff to 24)
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Commando-Para snipers : (IRL the commando para had always a sniper in the squad, the also get the commando rifle to make the more unique)
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Tigre HAD HOT-3 : (To finally make the Tiger the deadly chopper it should be)
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Gazelle canon accurate : ( because it share the same gun with the Lynx and Fennec 20mm and currently run out of ammo before killing a 1 AV transport)
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Bougnas » Tue 28 Jun 2016 10:50

I fully agree to those changes, but I would just do some fixes:

- the Chasseurs should definitely get the FAMAS. The LRAC is a highly powerfull RPG, so I think that we should fully update their weapons and increase price to 15 (compare to Jagers). Eventually consider nerfing the RPG on the Jagers but bring back their price to 10 pts.

This would improve the symbiosis in EC as Jagers could act as mobile, motorized cheap line inf, while Chasseurs could act as heavier line infantry who can kill tanks quite easily and use IFV's (the AMX 10P that could receive a side armor nerf and a price reduced to 10 along with other crap IFV).

Maybe consider nerfing Chasseurs '85 price to 20, not sure if Apilas would increase the price, what is the price of Motostrelki '90?

- you could nerf the side armor on the AMX 30B2 to it's predecessors's level (no upgrade there) but increase range to 2275m as it's likely with the new ammo. For those who don't know that, the B2 actually featured a thicker mantlet than the base version (80mm to 120mm), explaining the 7FAV on the B2.

- the Mirage F-1C 200 can't carry Magic II as it's from 1983, while the Magic 2 is from 1986. Actually, you can't really add a better ASF for France ( no weapons upgrade at that time) at CAT-B and it would be redundant in the same CAT as the Mirage 2000C.

Therefore, I suggest to buff Mirage F1C's ECM to 30 (used a RWR, a Phimat/Lacroix flare dispenser and a Dassault Barax jammer pod) and maybe exceptionnal air optics like the C-200 (so far I ´ve found no other massive radar upgrade outside of the Cyrano IV-1 with limited look down capabilities so that it's a decent CAT-C/B ASF (as I said before, you can't get any better ASF before the 2000C)

Then give 6 Belougas cluster bombs and 2 Magic missiles to the F1C-200. This saves the F-1CT to get 2/4 BGL 400 (is 2 BGL 1000 possible?) LGB and 2 Magic II.

Now obviously that's breaking again the no-rerolls rule, but that's a possibility. I would just want Xeno to have a look at this.


Nice Commando-Paras rework, if only we had this, we could finally counter those damned Pruzkumnicy 8-) !


PS: HOT-3 is OOTF.
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Xeno426 » Tue 28 Jun 2016 10:57

Bougnas wrote:Therefore, I suggest to buff Mirage F1C's ECM to 30 (used a RWR, a Phimat/Lacroix flare dispenser and a Dassault Barax jammer pod) and maybe exceptionnal air optics like the C-200 (so far I ´ve found no other massive radar upgrade outside of the Cyrano IV-1 with limited look down capabilities so that it's a decent CAT-C/B ASF (as I said before, you can't get any better ASF before the 2000C)

The F1C-200 only added a refueling probe; there was no change to the radar, so it's hard to justify better air optics over the predecessor.

Bougnas wrote:Then give 6 Belougas cluster bombs and 2 Magic missiles to the F1C-200. This saves the F-1CT to get 2/4 BGL 400 (is 2 BGL 1000 possible?) LGB and 2 Magic II.

I've actually made this same suggestion. The F1CT didn't have self-designation capability, but it could carry it so long as another aircraft provided target illumination. I normally wouldn't make the suggestion, but the lack of a Mirage 2000D to properly carry such a weapon is kind of a problem.
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Bougnas » Tue 28 Jun 2016 10:58

Xeno426 wrote:
Bougnas wrote:Therefore, I suggest to buff Mirage F1C's ECM to 30 (used a RWR, a Phimat/Lacroix flare dispenser and a Dassault Barax jammer pod) and maybe exceptionnal air optics like the C-200 (so far I ´ve found no other massive radar upgrade outside of the Cyrano IV-1 with limited look down capabilities so that it's a decent CAT-C/B ASF (as I said before, you can't get any better ASF before the 2000C)

The F1C-200 only added a refueling probe; there was no change to the radar, so it's hard to justify better air optics over the predecessor.

Bougnas wrote:Then give 6 Belougas cluster bombs and 2 Magic missiles to the F1C-200. This saves the F-1CT to get 2/4 BGL 400 (is 2 BGL 1000 possible?) LGB and 2 Magic II.

I've actually made this same suggestion. The F1CT didn't have self-designation capability, but it could carry it so long as another aircraft provided target illumination. I normally wouldn't make the suggestion, but the lack of a Mirage 2000D to properly carry such a weapon is kind of a problem.


Yeah that's why I thought of it.
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby Darkmil » Tue 28 Jun 2016 11:04

We need to ask Mirage 2000D then !
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Re: Final changes for French deck.

Postby FoxZz » Tue 28 Jun 2016 15:33

Yeah a LGB plane would be great, especially if it can get the BGL 1000 !

Another option is to give the SEAD mission to the Mirage IIIE (which would receive better ECM to represent its better avionics than the Jaguar A) and the Jaguar would get the BGL loadout. IRL, the sead mission was also transfered from the Jaguar to the Mirage IIIE squadrons in the late 80s.

The napalm loadout could go one the Mirage F1C-200.

About Chasseurs, they can't receive the famas, as when french troops deployed to Liban they were given SIG assault rifle as the Famas were not yet available for all troops. (That's why rima have the SG-542). Furthermore, considering their rather week dps, making them 15 points would kill them. WIth the SMG theyy can stay at 10 points but become very usable.

On Chasseurs 85, you can't make a regular infantry squad 20 points, it would be horribly cost uneffective. They would stay at 15 points, and would be similar to British Fusilier 90. The french deck flavour would be high AP infantry, which is historical as during the cold war infantry section were very focused on the anti-tank role. they would go well allong the Jager, one being more AP focused and the other more anti-infantry. While the APILAS was mass produced (120 000 launchers), it is only playable with Rima 85 which are already very restricted, that's a pitty.

With the slightly better mg Chasseurs line would also be able to hold its ground on its own, and it would also make the base legion and rima finally usable.

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