RPK-74

urogard
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Re: RPK-74

Postby urogard » Tue 3 Feb 2015 12:43

FLX wrote:
wingen013 wrote:So why do these have a lower rate of fire than older RPKs? I did some reading and it seems that it was a fairly incremental upgrade that featured a faster rate of fire. Just curious as to what the justification is. Was it a doctrinal change?

Because when you have to change your drum magasine every 75 rounds your average RoF is lower than when you carry boxes of 200 rounds.

(And be happy that I didn't consider it's using the 45 rounds mag)

Sorry but how does this answer make any sense when the RoF in the armory is a completely arbitrary stat?

The game files define the number of hit rolls in a salvo, time between each hit roll and time between each salvo (magazine reload). That is what defines how fast it can actually kill/damage stuff in the game.
Then the game adds number of rounds per salvo/hit roll (can't remember now), this has absolutely no effect on damage, but is the defining factor in calculating ingame RoF.

This is also the reason why SPAAG RoF is completely arbitrary and carries no relation to actual damage output.

On that note, I'm still waiting for a straight answer on this, because it's a contradictory statement.
I.e. I'm looking for an acknowledgement that this is an issue that is being worked at:
urogard wrote:
[EUG]MadMat wrote:
urogard wrote:RPK-74 and clones RoF is still not fixed

RPK isn't broken, hence won't be fixed. And as many others, its stats were refined in the DLC's first patch.

So, here is a statement: it won't be changed, even less "fixed".
Hence you've got an official answer, any further mantra-ing "still no" will be deleted.

I wasn't talking about RPK. Nowhere did I mention even once the RPK. I was talking about RPK-74 and clones, hence completely different weapons.
One final question with respect to this, since my original question hadn't received an answer, and to avoid misunderstandings I'll rephrase it:

So you actually intentionally intended to change it so that RPK (old) to deal 30% more damage than all the newer RPK variants (LADA, -74, etc.)?
While at the same time denying USSR access to this older but more powerful MG variant of the RPK and only giving them the RPK-74 which is significantly weaker than the RPK.

Yes or no?

Connected to this question, is the question whether NK intentionally only has access to the RPD with 0.08 HE/s which is the lowest possible CQC MG damage output and not a single infantry option with access to a better MG?

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Leviathan
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Re: RPK-74

Postby Leviathan » Tue 3 Feb 2015 12:49

Hollywood Myth wrote:in any case developers should fix issues with their games regardless of whether they're being fellated by the userbase or not.
there is no doubt we all would like to see issues to be fixed. I don't like to speculate about what is currently cooking in Eugen's kitchen and what's not. Some people will like supper and others not. Still, I absolutely resent the urge to stand in front of the cantine yelling at the cook. That doesn't make the meal more tasty. I'd just like to point out that supper will be served, eventually. Just be a little bit more patient.

You know exactly certain well known Eugen personal might have made certain experiences with certain forumite campaigns. If we don't stop yelling they will end up deaf. :lol:

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kestrel1993
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Re: RPK-74

Postby kestrel1993 » Tue 3 Feb 2015 12:53

FLX wrote:
wingen013 wrote:So why do these have a lower rate of fire than older RPKs? I did some reading and it seems that it was a fairly incremental upgrade that featured a faster rate of fire. Just curious as to what the justification is. Was it a doctrinal change?

Because when you have to change your drum magasine every 75 rounds your average RoF is lower than when you carry boxes of 200 rounds.

(And be happy that I didn't consider it's using the 45 rounds mag)


Some of MG ingame have 30 rounds mag and have better rof than rpk 74 with 45.
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Azaz3l
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Re: RPK-74

Postby Azaz3l » Tue 3 Feb 2015 13:09

FLX wrote:
wingen013 wrote:So why do these have a lower rate of fire than older RPKs? I did some reading and it seems that it was a fairly incremental upgrade that featured a faster rate of fire. Just curious as to what the justification is. Was it a doctrinal change?

Because when you have to change your drum magasine every 75 rounds your average RoF is lower than when you carry boxes of 200 rounds.

(And be happy that I didn't consider it's using the 45 rounds mag)

Because reloading a drum mag is slower than reloading belt fed MGs
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Ghostweed
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Re: RPK-74

Postby Ghostweed » Tue 3 Feb 2015 13:15

Azaz3l wrote:
FLX wrote:
wingen013 wrote:So why do these have a lower rate of fire than older RPKs? I did some reading and it seems that it was a fairly incremental upgrade that featured a faster rate of fire. Just curious as to what the justification is. Was it a doctrinal change?

Because when you have to change your drum magasine every 75 rounds your average RoF is lower than when you carry boxes of 200 rounds.

(And be happy that I didn't consider it's using the 45 rounds mag)

Because reloading a drum mag is slower than reloading belt fed MGs


yup, classic.. 8-)

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Nikrib
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Re: RPK-74

Postby Nikrib » Tue 3 Feb 2015 13:27

It's the same old SPW-80 situation: "It's not a mistake, it was done on purpose!!! It's carrying better troops so it costs higher!!!" (and I wonder if they say exactly the same about Best Korean BTR-80A now...) Yet in the end it was fixed.
What bugs me is why is it so hard for Eugen to admit mistake?! They're French, not Japaneese, it's not they are under the threat for dishonoring and seppuku or something.
...Or are they?

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kestrel1993
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Re: RPK-74

Postby kestrel1993 » Tue 3 Feb 2015 13:34

FLX wrote:
wingen013 wrote:So why do these have a lower rate of fire than older RPKs? I did some reading and it seems that it was a fairly incremental upgrade that featured a faster rate of fire. Just curious as to what the justification is. Was it a doctrinal change?

Because when you have to change your drum magasine every 75 rounds your average RoF is lower than when you carry boxes of 200 rounds.

(And be happy that I didn't consider it's using the 45 rounds mag)


30 mag
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45 mag
Image

30 mag
Image
Image

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Re: RPK-74

Postby keebs63 » Tue 3 Feb 2015 14:34

FLX wrote:
wingen013 wrote:So why do these have a lower rate of fire than older RPKs? I did some reading and it seems that it was a fairly incremental upgrade that featured a faster rate of fire. Just curious as to what the justification is. Was it a doctrinal change?

Because when you have to change your drum magasine every 75 rounds your average RoF is lower than when you carry boxes of 200 rounds.

(And be happy that I didn't consider it's using the 45 rounds mag)

Standard issue magazines were 75 for the RPK and 100 for the RPK-74...
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Re: RPK-74

Postby Znail » Tue 3 Feb 2015 14:41

Nikrib wrote:
Hollywood Myth wrote:This is bullshit. If the RPK suffers penalties for having smaller magazines, why doesn't the MG3 suffer penalties for being twice the weight?


Agreed. If we are going to take in consideration factors like this, then why doesn't overheating and following barrel change affect RoF? Why barrel wear doesn't affect anything? Also, to changing the belt is more complicated process that attaching new box magazine, no?

This is a rather important argument as it takes at least twice as long to replace a belt compared with a magasine, so a 75 shot magasine should offer no reduction to rof over belt magasine.

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LittleTinGod
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Re: RPK-74

Postby LittleTinGod » Tue 3 Feb 2015 14:53

This situation is so very very frustrating.... how can such a simple thing be so misunderstood. The RPK has nearly twice the effectiveness of the RPK-74. I've tried the long detailed explanation and it gets no where, Simple has been tried and misunderstood as well. Its infuriating.

Eugen, The RPK is nearly twice as effective as the RPK-74 and their is no basis for this. Please realize how problematic this is if you want to use upgraded units that carry the RPK-74 or nations like the USSR that only have the RPK-74.....

In response to Levithon, yes this IS game breaking because it is forcing horrible choices on Redfor decks on either having a horrible machine gun or a horrible AT weapon for shock infantry.
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