Nerf the gun on Mig-27 series

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5P00N3D
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Re: Nerf the gun on Mig-27 series

Postby 5P00N3D » Mon 20 Apr 2015 12:14

stratmania wrote:
5P00N3D wrote:
stratmania wrote:Right after BLUFOR Leopard 1A5 deals the same level of damage as similar-priced tanks and not 85-95 point tanks.


Did I say anything about Leo 1A5s? I get the point but it's completely unrelated to this topic.
I support the idea of nerfing Leo 1A5s and other Bluefor mediums /and or buffing acc on some Redfor mediums but you sound very sarcastic to me. :(

I was being sarcastic. You said the basis of this is that the mig-27 in your opinion punches above its weight. The thing is that they can be killed easily. Leopard 1 spam, not so much.


Leopard 1 spam can be stopped by a few superheavies.

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Re: Nerf the gun on Mig-27 series

Postby stratmania » Mon 20 Apr 2015 12:21

5P00N3D wrote:
Leopard 1 spam can be stopped by a few superheavies.

Which are only available in either armored or non-specialised decks (also costs 2-3 times their price)
Anyways, the message I was trying to convey was that you are asking for a nerf on a unit that is considered "just fine". It's like asking for a nerf on the VDV '90 or the PzGren '90. They are good, but just fine.

I would also like to point out that if AGM planes are getting that close to your supertanks, I hope you got air defense (you either have armored or non-spec decks so no excuses). Even a radar SPAAG (blufor has plenty of those, get some gepards, marksmen, vulcans, or the otomatic) or an I-HAWK will do the job. I bet that AGM plane will eat the dust. Note that one of these babies costs around 50-80 points, so even high-end ones will at least give you profit.
Last edited by stratmania on Mon 20 Apr 2015 12:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nerf the gun on Mig-27 series

Postby 5P00N3D » Mon 20 Apr 2015 12:27

hansbroger wrote:MiG-27/Su-25 chewing up your tanks with guns is a deck composition problem not a balance problem. Planes end up closing to at least roughly 1500m to engage with guns. A lack of SHORAD able to police within 1500m of your tanks means they'll be getting chewed up by OH-6 Susong-Po's let alone jets or scary attack helos. That or just break the cycle and use 1A5s, they're easily and painlessly replaced when lost and utterly cost ineffective to suicide an atgm jet at.... Plus you get the firepower of an 80 point Leo 2 for much less allowing you to buy SHORAD!


Sorry to say this but I haven't seen a player dumb enough to spam Leo1A5s in 3v3 or 4v4 games and it's not going to work against super heavies.
Please remind that the gun on Mig-27 has 2800m range. Tanks targeted by a Mig-27 usually get killed before friendly AAs can even hit unless they have patriots and /or they have AAs right next to their tanks.

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Re: Nerf the gun on Mig-27 series

Postby 5P00N3D » Mon 20 Apr 2015 12:29

stratmania wrote:
5P00N3D wrote:
Leopard 1 spam can be stopped by a few superheavies.

Which are only available in either armored or non-specialised decks.
Anyways, the message I was trying to convey was that you are asking for a nerf on a unit that is considered "just fine". It's like asking for a nerf on the VDV '90 or the PzGren '90. They are good, but just fine.


VDV '90 and PanzerGren '90 are fine because they work almost the same way and cost the same. The whole point of this article was that Mig-27s don't fit in 95pts category

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Re: Nerf the gun on Mig-27 series

Postby stratmania » Mon 20 Apr 2015 12:34

5P00N3D wrote:
stratmania wrote:
5P00N3D wrote:
Leopard 1 spam can be stopped by a few superheavies.

Which are only available in either armored or non-specialised decks.
Anyways, the message I was trying to convey was that you are asking for a nerf on a unit that is considered "just fine". It's like asking for a nerf on the VDV '90 or the PzGren '90. They are good, but just fine.


VDV '90 and PanzerGren '90 are fine because they work almost the same way and cost the same. The whole point of this article was that Mig-27s don't fit in 95pts category

Well, I find that they are quite good for 95 points, and should stay that way (trust me when I say some of the Soviet kit is NOT cost-effective). If they were really such an issue people would complain more already. (since REDFOR players like to play USSR anyways as it is a very strong deck)

While we're at it, the A-10 DOES deserve a buff. I find the ECM rather lacking.

5P00N3D wrote:
hansbroger wrote:MiG-27/Su-25 chewing up your tanks with guns is a deck composition problem not a balance problem. Planes end up closing to at least roughly 1500m to engage with guns. A lack of SHORAD able to police within 1500m of your tanks means they'll be getting chewed up by OH-6 Susong-Po's let alone jets or scary attack helos. That or just break the cycle and use 1A5s, they're easily and painlessly replaced when lost and utterly cost ineffective to suicide an atgm jet at.... Plus you get the firepower of an 80 point Leo 2 for much less allowing you to buy SHORAD!


Sorry to say this but I haven't seen a player dumb enough to spam Leo1A5s in 3v3 or 4v4 games and it's not going to work against super heavies.
Please remind that the gun on Mig-27 has 2800m range. Tanks targeted by a Mig-27 usually get killed before friendly AAs can even hit unless they have patriots and /or they have AAs right next to their tanks.

Wait, on what occasion do you NOT have AA next to your important units? Was this when you assault the enemy?
Also, Leo 1A5s are always a smart choice, simply because the enemy will have to spend a higher number of points to ensure its destruction. If the Leo 1s have superheavies with them... Good luck.

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Re: Nerf the gun on Mig-27 series

Postby 5P00N3D » Mon 20 Apr 2015 12:35

stratmania wrote:I hope you got air defense (you either have armored or non-spec decks so no excuses). Even a radar SPAAG (blufor has plenty of those, get some gepards, marksmen, vulcans, or the otomatic) .


You can use all of the top tiers AAs with armoured decks. Me playing armoured or non-spec decks in 4v4 doesn't have anything to do with AAs.

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Re: Nerf the gun on Mig-27 series

Postby 5P00N3D » Mon 20 Apr 2015 12:45

I agree with buffing A-10. 10% Extra ECM or increased acc on those maverick will be very nice. However, other soviet units not being cost effective is their problem not Mig-27's and I'm pretty sure that there have been countless arguments about buffing other soviet units.

I didn't know if this was a thing (spamming Leo 1A5s) but I always play on 3v3 maps (somtimes 2v2) with very good players and haven't seen it working AT ALL

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Re: Nerf the gun on Mig-27 series

Postby stratmania » Mon 20 Apr 2015 12:56

5P00N3D wrote:
stratmania wrote:I hope you got air defense (you either have armored or non-spec decks so no excuses). Even a radar SPAAG (blufor has plenty of those, get some gepards, marksmen, vulcans, or the otomatic) .


You can use all of the top tiers AAs with armoured decks. Me playing armoured or non-spec decks in 4v4 doesn't have anything to do with AAs.

That's the point. since you can bring in the top AA, it should not be a problem to neutralise an AGM plane.

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Re: Nerf the gun on Mig-27 series

Postby thenosh » Mon 20 Apr 2015 13:05

5P00N3D wrote:I agree with buffing A-10. 10% Extra ECM or increased acc on those maverick will be very nice. However, other soviet units not being cost effective is their problem not Mig-27's and I'm pretty sure that there have been countless arguments about buffing other soviet units.

I didn't know if this was a thing (spamming Leo 1A5s) but I always play on 3v3 maps (somtimes 2v2) with very good players and haven't seen it working AT ALL


Wait, now this is about nerfing the Mig-27 AND buffing the A-10? Really? Wow.
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Re: Nerf the gun on Mig-27 series

Postby 5P00N3D » Mon 20 Apr 2015 13:07

stratmania wrote:
5P00N3D wrote:
stratmania wrote:I hope you got air defense (you either have armored or non-spec decks so no excuses). Even a radar SPAAG (blufor has plenty of those, get some gepards, marksmen, vulcans, or the otomatic) .


You can use all of the top tiers AAs with armoured decks. Me playing armoured or non-spec decks in 4v4 doesn't have anything to do with AAs.

That's the point. since you can bring in the top AA, it should not be a problem to neutralise an AGM plane.


Putting up the top AA just to stop a 95 pts AGM plane (usually 1 patriot or a couple of hawks if you put them very close to your tanks but don't expect them to survive long) means you are going to lose your ground very soon.

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