Arty spamming is killing this game.

Virunis
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Re: Arty spamming is killing this game.

Postby Virunis » Thu 30 Apr 2015 12:55

MILINTarctrooper wrote:
molnibalage wrote:
Just as example, as it is I can buy 28 MLRS as East Block player, thats more than 1000 rockets per salvo.

And it kills almost nothing or if you fire all with the same place and min distance for lots of CP and wasted supply pts. you got nothing back...

Actually not true. On some maps...Back to Inchon is a very good example. If you feel really evil as Redfor. Just have a single or two players play support and let them mass BM-21s or RM-70...and just plaster blast their two Entering Zones. You will be assured at least 3 or 4 FOBS the unlucky CV unit...if it isn't a tank. [Which I find funny why people bring a tank CV to the front zone...and not hide it in the rear.]

NSWP get a ludicrious amount of BM-21+RM-70 combo...which really works well in this situation. As well as you have a Cluster RM-70/Cluster Uraguan [Which I prefer when I can afford the pair of them.] and then BM-24 Napalm just for irritation and kicks.

USSR is kind of in a weird spot...it has too much seperation between its HE Uragans and BM-21...and Smerch...so there isn't really a good amount of overlay.

Whereas the BM-21/RM-70 combo allows you to get within minimum range and literally turn any area into a stunlock/kill zone.

You just have to know how to use them correctly. I find that where-ever I play...players seem to immediately concentrate fire on my RM-70s that I micro very well. I have made some games nearly impossible for Bluefor because I would just fire move my MLRS all over the map.


As an EB player i can confirm that the ammount of Grads that alliance can bring is an absurd.

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molnibalage
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Re: Arty spamming is killing this game.

Postby molnibalage » Thu 30 Apr 2015 13:00

feeblezak wrote:The horrible, abusive, community is what is killing this game.

Also cluster artillery

I 100% agree.

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Re: Arty spamming is killing this game.

Postby stratmania » Thu 30 Apr 2015 13:15

molnibalage wrote:
feeblezak wrote:The horrible, abusive, community is what is killing this game.

Also cluster artillery

I 100% agree.

I actually preferred the Smerch when it had HE warheads. Cluster MLRS exists IRL... but in wargame, it feels wrong. I want to suppress enemy forces, not kill tanks with my MLRS. I can leave that to my TD/ATGM/Heavies.

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Re: Arty spamming is killing this game.

Postby Steamfunk » Fri 1 May 2015 02:37

The horrible, abusive, community is what is killing this game.


Hear, hear. It must be great for newbies when they fall foul of one of the prima donnas, and are told to 'GTFO you useless f*****!!!1'

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Re: Arty spamming is killing this game.

Postby Bullfrog » Fri 1 May 2015 02:41

What's killing this game is it being a year old, nothing more.
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Re: Arty spamming is killing this game.

Postby Steamfunk » Fri 1 May 2015 03:18

What's killing this game is it being a year old, nothing more.


Well, 3 games in 3 years and stacked multiplayer will do that.

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pattern
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Re: Arty spamming is killing this game.

Postby pattern » Fri 1 May 2015 04:55

Arty spamming

Countermeasure is both fun and elegant: play only Conquest 50 min.

If someone spends 300 points on arty in the beginning of the game they are going to get rekt on the frontline in 5 minutes. If someone manages to buy 10 mortars or 4 MLRS and keep their sectors - it's your fault. But even if enemy manag to do that - on the 41 minutes supply run out and it's time for a comeback.


stratmania wrote:I actually preferred the Smerch when it had HE warheads. Cluster MLRS exists IRL... but in wargame, it feels wrong. I want to suppress enemy forces, not kill tanks with my MLRS. I can leave that to my TD/ATGM/Heavies.

Supression and light damage is what smerch does after all the nerfs . You need at least a double salvo or static/damaged targets to get any decent kills.

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Re: Arty spamming is killing this game.

Postby PzAz04Maus » Fri 1 May 2015 07:24

pattern wrote:If someone spends 300 points on arty in the beginning of the game they are going to get rekt on the frontline in 5 minutes. If someone manages to buy 10 mortars or 4 MLRS and keep their sectors - it's your fault. But even if enemy manag to do that - on the 41 minutes supply run out and it's time for a comeback.

I will acknowledge that there are credible arguments for why artillery isn't the source of bad games, but I take exception to this paragraph.

If someone spends 300 points on arty in the beginning of the game they are going to get rekt on the frontline in 5 minutes.

Few competent players do that. Artillery usually is the sole province of a single support player supported by a few good pieces from other players, or get brought in after the initial contact.

If someone manages to buy 10 mortars or 4 MLRS and keep their sectors - it's your fault.

Except artillery can support and kill just as well as any direct fire unit. If the enemy is getting pushed back, artillery can be used to wipe out the survivors of an assault force or snatch targets of opportunity like ATGMs, AA, or infantry for an airstrike or counter attack; If the line has stabilized, artillery is used to erase strongpoints, support units, reconnaissance, or unicorns propping up the line. Artillery in Wargame doesn't just attrit or soften units, it tends to shatter them completely. And if the enemy is attacking, artillery is not only used to soften, but to obliterate even more targets of opportunity. Artillery kills response.

If an enemy attack starts bogging down due to a miscalculation, artillery gets used to panic button that away since you have to stand still to shoot well in this game, infantry lose speed to morale, artillery stunning the crap out of platoons, and so on. Artillery kills mobility.

In each and every case, when artillery is used correctly, they destroy an active player's force so far that their momentum is compromised, requiring the player to sit back and constantly reorganize and replenish losses. But not only is artillery capable of this attrition, the 10 second aim time is so powerful, that tactical mobility is so underrepresented in this game, that artillery do not have any weaknesses besides poor play. In the face of compromised tactical tempo, the game stalls out while the non-artillery using player constantly tries to ensure he can cover his defensive gaps. Artillery kills initiative.

The only good response to a battle that artillery has brought to a standstill is to hide everything, and then get your own artillery to destroy the enemy's defenses, tempo as well. Otherwise you cede everything to the enemy. The game becomes a lame wash. Artillery kills maneuver.

But even if enemy manag to do that - on the 41 minutes supply run out and it's time for a comeback.

"Only 41 minutes out of a 60 minute game!"

Those are the worst matches. When I get those, I stop attacking entirely, grab my one card of mortars I have in every deck for this situation, dig in, and just give up hope of advancing, even against junk players. There's nothing else to do but grab helicopters for a QRF and probe every so often to see if there's something interesting to do. Against players of comparable skill, these contributions to the lack of maneuver ensures that nothing happens.

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Re: Arty spamming is killing this game.

Postby Sunshine » Fri 1 May 2015 11:08

Virunis wrote:I know ppl complain about arty spamming since this game release.

No, people complain about being shelled at all.
In Wargame the successful use of any unit, even if it is a single Nighthawk is Spam.

However, there is a certain cluster munitions problem in my opinion.
Availability is too high, costs are way too low and rearming happens too fast as well.
Bad combination for gameplay.

But what's worse is that this game is simply left for dead.
Yes, yes, Eugene didn't say that.

But who here believes in anything happening again for RD?
The announced "map pack" for example?
Or simply a patch that addresses the worst issues?

"I stopped believing", though I always liked that song. :(
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Virunis
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Re: Arty spamming is killing this game.

Postby Virunis » Fri 1 May 2015 13:18

I agree that artillery need an availability nerf to the numbers of AB. I also agree that reloading time and supply need of clusters need a nerf. I am probably one of the few players to use mortars more to smoke stuff and than to bomb tanks.


Sunshine wrote:
Virunis wrote:I know ppl complain about arty spamming since this game release.

No, people complain about being shelled at all.
In Wargame the successful use of any unit, even if it is a single Nighthawk is Spam.

However, there is a certain cluster munitions problem in my opinion.
Availability is too high, costs are way too low and rearming happens too fast as well.
Bad combination for gameplay.

But what's worse is that this game is simply left for dead.
Yes, yes, Eugene didn't say that.

But who here believes in anything happening again for RD?
The announced "map pack" for example?
Or simply a patch that addresses the worst issues?

"I stopped believing", though I always liked that song. :(

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