The most overbuffed, overpowered units

User avatar
molnibalage
General
Posts: 6706
Joined: Thu 1 Aug 2013 22:54
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: The most overbuffed, overpowered units

Postby molnibalage » Tue 5 May 2015 14:14

Being crap or not has nothing to do with being overmodelled.

Which is over modeled? Hm...?

Hawks and patriots shouldnt even be in the game.

That pls. explain why it is SA-3 for DPRK and similar system for PRC and for USSR Buk and Kub. Yes, I know the role of SA-6/11 but in case you allow only such heavy system for USSR it would mean totally unbalanced state... It is amazing that you can't recognize so basic fact...

Vulcan and pivads are overmodelled.

Can I ask why? It has one of the lowest base ACC among A cat AAAs and shortest range either. Or your only problem the neverending salvo lenght...? Considering the fire rate, range and base ACC of Tung or Gepard I do not see any oversmodeling. PIVADS is one of the weakes AAA. It is A cat but is has issues dealing even with C cat armored Mi-24 with 2800 m range Kokon...

Us adn is isnt crap in RD.If you want to play with blufor nation with crap adn go play as Sweden or west germany.

It is unfair to compare a minor nation with a superpower. Compare USA with Eurocorps or Scandis coalitions and you will cry how crap is USA except the super expensive Patriot which is as vulnearble to SEAD+ARM as any other radar SAM. MiG-25BM can kill without any problem. So compare USA to thes coalitions.

Scandis?
They have the best AAA (Otomatic and SWE stuff with 2800 m range, 3AP and it is amphi as I can remember.)

SEAD immune long range HAWL SAM. Uberbrutal.

RBS MANPAD has the longest range. Yes, it is not F&F and has only 4HE, so it is good only against max. 6-8 HP combat helos to kill them with two hites. Except Mi-24 spam it is fine, and 5 man size.



Eurocorps?
Roland 3. You have even two options. The GER has 2 top armor, the FRA has higher front AV. 65 base ACC 3500 m range and 2800 m range against helos so you can use even against Mi-24s.

Crotale. Even before the base AC buff was good but now it is simply crime against humanity even in cat A. In cat C I cannot imagine how brutal can be...

Mistral, 5 man size, longest F&F MANPAD with very high base ACC.

User avatar
captain biggles
Warrant Officer
Posts: 433
Joined: Sun 15 Sep 2013 14:23
Location: Sea Base 005 Planet Neptune
Contact:

Re: The most overbuffed, overpowered units

Postby captain biggles » Tue 5 May 2015 14:57

Mike wrote:Definitely the LaFayette. Damn near invisible and has the most accurate SAM in game :lol:

I have yet to see one use it's Close In Weapons Systems. i honestly have more luck with Type 21s.
Britain doesn't need better SEAD - it has the Challenger 2 for that.
Spoiler : :
Image
Image
Special thanks to kiheerSEDMAN for the sigs.

terror51247
Major
Posts: 1851
Joined: Thu 27 Sep 2012 12:55
Contact:

Re: The most overbuffed, overpowered units

Postby terror51247 » Tue 5 May 2015 15:07

That pls. explain why it is SA-3 for DPRK and similar system for PRC and for USSR Buk and Kub. Yes, I know the role of SA-6/11 but in case you allow only such heavy system for USSR it would mean totally unbalanced state... It is amazing that you can't recognize so basic fact...

HQ 61 is divisional.KUB and BUK are divisional too.Patriot and hawk are corps level air defenses.Their redfor equivalent are the S300 and the Krug.Its also very funny seeing that removing heavy AA from blufor would be unbalanced but somehow massivily nerfing redfor's airpower wouldnt unbalance the game at all.
Can I ask why? It has one of the lowest base ACC among A cat AAAs and shortest range either. Or your only problem the neverending salvo lenght...? Considering the fire rate, range and base ACC of Tung or Gepard I do not see any oversmodeling. PIVADS is one of the weakes AAA. It is A cat but is has issues dealing even with C cat armored Mi-24 with 2800 m range Kokon...

Armory stats dont matter.What matters is HE per SEC output.Pivads He per sec output is 0.92 whilke biryusa's is 0.87.Both have the same range and pivads has an endless clip but for some reason the biryusa costs 25% more.Vulcan's he output is 0.51 while nk shilka's is 0.38.Both have the same range and vulcan has an endless clip but for some reason the nk shilka is 20% more expenaive than the vulcan.IRL the shilka more accurate and has more range than the vulcan.
It is unfair to compare a minor nation with a superpower. Compare USA with Eurocorps or Scandis coalitions and you will cry how crap is USA except the super expensive Patriot which is as vulnearble to SEAD+ARM as any other radar SAM. MiG-25BM can kill without any problem. So compare USA to thes coalitions.

Scandis?
They have the best AAA (Otomatic and SWE stuff with 2800 m range, 3AP and it is amphi as I can remember.)

SEAD immune long range HAWL SAM. Uberbrutal.

RBS MANPAD has the longest range. Yes, it is not F&F and has only 4HE, so it is good only against max. 6-8 HP combat helos to kill them with two hites. Except Mi-24 spam it is fine, and 5 man size.

Coalitions are Bs.In my opinion they shouldnt even be in the game.Sead is out of scale as well and shouldnt be in the game.
How can anyone play to a faction's strength if the major flavour of that faction is overpriced units in every category?

stratmania
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2068
Joined: Thu 1 Nov 2012 17:27
Contact:

Re: The most overbuffed, overpowered units

Postby stratmania » Tue 5 May 2015 15:10

Overbuffed? Perhaps the Leopard 1 series (but that invigorates medium tanks discussion).

Overmodelled? USSR airforce, that's for sure, but also other things such as USA ADN assets like the vulcan systems and early chapparal systems (they were crap IRL.).

Other Overmodelled things include the Lafayette (80%!!!) and possibly the TOW-2 accuracy (either that or other SACLOS/SALH missiles are underrepresented), but I think the most overmodelled thing in this entire game is aim time. In my opinion, tanks should have some aim time (1-2s), then missile AA should have aim time as well (avoiding magical instant lock-on with stuff like chapparal, strela-10, and other non-guided systems).

User avatar
molnibalage
General
Posts: 6706
Joined: Thu 1 Aug 2013 22:54
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: The most overbuffed, overpowered units

Postby molnibalage » Tue 5 May 2015 15:44

Overbuffed? Perhaps the Leopard 1 series (but that invigorates medium tanks discussion).

Regardless of very good base ACC and firepower Leo1 has paper armor...

Overmodelled? USSR airforce, that's for sure, but also other things such as USA ADN assets like the vulcan systems and early chapparal systems (they were crap IRL.).

Are we speaking about the same game? Chapparal and over modeled?


The oldest Chappy has 30% base ACC with same range as Strela-10 which has 50% base ACC, it is amphi, has 10HP and has armor. Megalol. I have never seen the oldest Chappy in RD.

Sendon Chappy? It has 40% base ACC and 2975 m range. Still no armor, no amphi, nothing special.

A cat Chappy has only 55% or 50% with same range as C cat Crotale. So still less base ACC, no armor, 5HP, but finalyl it is amphi.

So, pls. explain why and how is overmodeled any Chappy... They are totally crap except the best, which has very low avail, very expensive and dies from anything.


PIVADS? It has the less base ACC and range among A cat AAAs... It is the only one (as I can remember) which cannot fire during movment. Its only advantage amphi capability and low price and high avail, but just checking stats it is weak. Very weak. The base M163 without radar is even worse, I have never seen on battlefield... Yes, so overmodeld that nobody uses them.

It would not a disaster such a crap AD the problem is that US AIR tab is sucks. Even you haev F-15C or F-16C their TOT/fuel values are bad joke comparing to rest of non US jets...

HQ 61 is divisional.KUB and BUK are divisional too.Patriot and hawk are corps level air defenses.

Pls explain this better. Have you ever check OOB of NATO 1989?

Their redfor equivalent are the S300 and the Krug.

Not exactly. S-300V was the replacament of all previous heavy SAMs (Krug, Kub) beside the Kub, but even its main type the S-300V is totally differnt from othe S-300 variants.

Coalitions are Bs.In my opinion they shouldnt even be in the game.Sead is out of scale as well and shouldnt be in the game.

This was the most funniest part of your comment. SEAD AC as just as tactical fighters as other AC in WG..

terror51247
Major
Posts: 1851
Joined: Thu 27 Sep 2012 12:55
Contact:

Re: The most overbuffed, overpowered units

Postby terror51247 » Tue 5 May 2015 15:57

PIVADS? It has the less base ACC and range among A cat AAAs... It is the only one (as I can remember) which cannot fire during movment. Its only advantage amphi capability and low price and high avail, but just checking stats it is weak. Very weak. The base M163 without radar is even worse, I have never seen on battlefield... Yes, so overmodeld that nobody uses them.

They arent weak.You are still cheking worthless armory stats.They mean nothing.Both the pivads and the vulcan are stronger than all their price equivalents.If you want to see the stats yourself but dont want to open the game's files with mod tools then you can just see this:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lon0cgmjfqwq1oi/WargameRD_Hidden_Knowledge_Spreadsheet.xlsx?dl=0
Pls explain this better. Have you ever check OOB of NATO 1989?

http://pt.scribd.com/doc/37695/NATO-Order-of-Battle-1989
Yes.You wont see a single division with hawks and patriots.
Not exactly. S-300V was the replacament of all previous heavy SAMs (Krug, Kub) beside the Kub, but even its main type the S-300V is totally differnt from othe S-300 variants.

S300 replaces the krug only.Kub is divisional and was replaced by BUK.
This was the most funniest part of your comment. SEAD AC as just as tactical fighters as other AC in WG..

No one would use sead aircraft to attack dispersed armored columms.There are more important targets for those aircraft.
How can anyone play to a faction's strength if the major flavour of that faction is overpriced units in every category?

User avatar
molnibalage
General
Posts: 6706
Joined: Thu 1 Aug 2013 22:54
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: The most overbuffed, overpowered units

Postby molnibalage » Tue 5 May 2015 16:11

They arent weak.You are still cheking worthless armory stats.They mean nothing.Both the pivads and the vulcan are stronger than all their price equivalents.If you want to see the stats yourself but dont want to open the game's files with mod tools then you can just see this:

No, I have tried them. The main reason why I do not play with certain nations is their weak AD and lack of CAP capability. The only expection where I play with my friends or players that I know and provide my armored deck AD + CAP. PIVADs are such because of ther range, 1 armor value regardless of any stats. Mi-24 and helo spam simply eradicate as well as USA AD stuff because lack of armor while Tung (red side) or Leopard AAA has real armor at least against very old crap ATGM and rockets.

S300 replaces the krug only.Kub is divisional and was replaced by BUK.

S-300 had tons of variant. As I have said only te S-300V is assigned as way to troops as Krug, Kub, Osa, Buk or Tor, etc.

No one would use sead aircraft to attack dispersed armored columms.There are more important targets for those aircraft.

SEAD AC escort in the package other AC you genious...

User avatar
Bullfrog
General
Posts: 5308
Joined: Sat 11 Aug 2012 23:48
Contact:

Re: The most overbuffed, overpowered units

Postby Bullfrog » Tue 5 May 2015 16:26

The US used F-4Gs to pound ground daring the first gulf war. The F-18 and F-16 also did both SEAD and other ground attack roles, but they aren't Wild Weasels so it's a bit more expected of them.
Does not affiliate with members who post in #MakeAmericaGreatAgain
Image

terror51247
Major
Posts: 1851
Joined: Thu 27 Sep 2012 12:55
Contact:

Re: The most overbuffed, overpowered units

Postby terror51247 » Tue 5 May 2015 16:36

No, I have tried them. The main reason why I do not play with certain nations is their weak AD and lack of CAP capability. The only expection where I play with my friends or players that I know and provide my armored deck AD + CAP. PIVADs are such because of ther range, 1 armor value regardless of any stats. Mi-24 and helo spam simply eradicate as well as USA AD stuff because lack of armor while Tung (red side) or Leopard AAA has real armor at least against very old crap ATGM and rockets.

The thing is that personal impressions are worth nothing.If the pivads does more dmg and costs less than its equivalents then the pivads is stronger than its equivalent.You should stop trying to compare 40 pt AA with 100 pt AA.BTW tunguska's and gepard's 1 top armor will reduce HE dmg only by 10%.
Mi-24 and helo spam

The only kind of game where this is actually efficient is cat C games.
SEAD AC escort in the package other AC you genious...

And those packges wouldnt lose their time with dispersed armored collums while there are better stuff to kill like marching columms, command centers, ammo depots...................
How can anyone play to a faction's strength if the major flavour of that faction is overpriced units in every category?

User avatar
molnibalage
General
Posts: 6706
Joined: Thu 1 Aug 2013 22:54
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: The most overbuffed, overpowered units

Postby molnibalage » Tue 5 May 2015 16:39

I just got message from the creator of SAMsim, the Krug, Buk, S-300V are also not on divisional level...

regiment level Shilka/Strela-1/Strela-10
division: Kub/Osa
Corps/frontline Krug/Buk/Osa

Return to “Wargame : Red Dragon”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests