US Changes: The Compiled and Proposed

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KattiValk
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US Changes: The Compiled and Proposed

Postby KattiValk » Wed 23 Sep 2015 04:20

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Purpose
I'd like discussion of balancing the US to get touched on as much as possible here (even things we know probably are too time consuming to add like rerolls and new units) and I'll try and update the OP with everything we agree (and disagree) on. The list will try to be as comprehensive as possible and I strongly suggest everyone to at least try and pitch in without starting flame wars. Sadly, the OP of the old American Units thread has been MIA from these forums for a really long time, so we can't quite hijack that thread for these purposes (though if a mod sees fit, they can take up the mantle by obliterating this from existence and using the old thread).

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The Compilation
Remember, this is merely a compilation and should not be considered the definite needs to happen (though some should) change list for the US. Some of these changes will not work with each other (for obvious balance reasons).

Spoiler : The Full List :
NOTE: these changes are all the ideas (that I can find) pertaining to US units in RD.

STATUS
Possible changes are those we might best be able to slip to Eugen.
Not Likely changes would be ones Eugen would give us if they were feeling very generous.
Practically Impossible changes are ones that would only be likely in the next Wargame or would require a radical social and political upheaval inside the Eugen offices to get passed. Some are also mildly crazy (F-22).

Some changes have been added as per comments.

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GENERAL
    Possible:

    Not Likely:
  • Stinger range buff and accuracy nerf.
    • A: 2450m
    • C: 2625m
  • Significant M134 Minigun buff (this is not what the Vulcan uses, and this is my own suggestion). Drastically decrease the time between bursts and increase suppression to 55. More hit rolls per burst or longer bursts would also be nice.

    Practically Impossible:

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LOGISTICS
    Possible:
  • LAV CV price buff.
  • M114 price buff.
  • M577 price buff.
    ^all my own suggestions
  • Buff supply helicopter pricing. Yay.

    Not Likely:
  • LAV supply unit.

    Practically Impossible:
  • LVS

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INFANTRY
    Possible:
  • Buff all Dragon AP (base Dragon to 14 AP, etc).
  • Buff M60 (and its variants).
  • Fix Sea Knight availability.
  • Give Deltas '75 the CG on their backs.
  • Increase ammo for Assault Engineers.
  • More ammo for LAW carrying units.
  • Give the M2A2 3 cards and the same availability as the BMP-3 (possibly open for transport for Stinger (historical BSFV) and other units).

    Not Likely:
  • Give Riflemen '90 the M249 or M60E3.
      Possibly, rename Riflemen '90 to Riflemen '85, give them the Minimi and prototype them due to the AT4 getting refit during the '85 period, thus making them a prototype to be kept out of Mixed Blue.
  • Convert all '82+ M16s to M16A2 with +10% accuracy. This includes all '90s infantry and SMAW as well.
  • Buff AT4 accuracy.
  • Give Marines '90 the SMAW.
  • Give Delta the Stoner 63 or some other top line SMG.
  • Add TOW infantry.
  • Increase M72 LAW AP by 1 or 2 as it had more AP than the original PG-7V.
  • Add Rangers '90 (M16/4, CG M3, M249) (Elite?).
  • Add Deltas '90 (M16/4/MP5, AT4, SR-25/M249).
    *M4 would act as carbine (CQC bonus).
  • Increase the speed of units carrying LAW and AT4.
  • Shock Light Riflemen.
  • Shift Dragon and M72 around.
  • Add Airborne.

    Practically Impossible:
  • Javelin.
  • Shock Riflemen '90.
  • ACR Program (basically G-11 or AR/AUG flechette spitter).

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SUPPORT
    Possible:
  • Paladin price/ROF/armor buff (not all at once obviously).
  • Avenger price buff (would not apply if Stingers are buffed).
  • Chaparral accuracy buff or availability buff.
  • Chap and HAWK platform get buffed to 10HP.

    Not Likely:
  • Remove Patriot.
  • Remove ATACMS.
  • Add cluster/HE MLRS.

    Practically Impossible:
  • BRADATS.
  • AMRAAM Humvee.
  • LAV-AD.

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TANK
    Possible:
  • Buff M60 line (please suggest changes).
    • M60A3: Accuracy: 55% > 60% (it was using the M1 Abrams FCS after all), AP: 13 > 16 and move up the intro date to 1984 (this means the M60A3 would be using the M833 APFSDS round) range: 2100m >2275m (It had one of the world's most advanced FCS during its time, but the same buff should apply to the Abrams among many other tanks)
    • Change M48A5 USMC to simply M48A5 and make it available to all US decks minus airborne
      Change intro date to 1983 (Reserve tank, with a newer APFSDS round and a newer optics)
      Increase Optics from "Bad" to "Medium" (Improved optics, similar to those on the M1 and M60A3)
      Increase accuracy from 35% to 50% (Improved FCS, close to the quality of an M60A3)
      Increase AP from 9 AP to 16 AP (M833 APFSDS)
      Increase range from 1925m to 2100m
      Decrease base availability to 18/16
      Increase price to 45-50
    • Combine M60A1 AOS and RISE into one.
    • Recon M60A1.
    • M60A2 range to 2100m, 45% accuracy, stabs 20-30%
    • Super M60 to 2275m.
  • Buff M1IP range (2275m), increase AP to 16/17, medium optics (possibly nerf price if implemented). Otherwise, price buff back to its former cost without changes.
  • Buff Sheridan, Starship, and MBT-70 HE to 5 or 6 and increase Shillelagh accuracy (Sheridan ROF nerf). Range buff to 2100m. 5 HE party begins.
  • Give Starships the Shillelagh-C.
  • M8 AGS price nerf Done.
  • Price buff M1A1HA and M1A1 (again). They still are subpar.

    Not Likely:
  • Buff HA to HC stats.
  • Buff HC to have A2 armor.

    Practically Impossible:

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RECON
    Possible:
  • Buff Cav Scouts (price?).
  • Sheridan changes apply here.
  • Nerf Longbow back to 1 shot per volley. <this is a very hotly contested topic
  • Rename AH-1J to AH-1G.
  • Nerf AH-1J availibility.
  • M3A2 price nerf. Done.

    Not Likely:
  • Swap Delta and SEAL roles.
  • Add/reroll a Delta sniper team (MP5, PSG-1). <call Team Rainbow for bonus points
  • Nerf M3 line to Poor stealth and give them Exceptional with price buffs where necessary.
  • Reroll M134 and Mk 19 Humvees as transports.

    Practically Impossible:
  • Sniper team (Delta, MARSOC, Scout Snipers, etc.).
  • Shock Marine recon.
  • Add M2 SLAP Humvee recon/transport.
  • RAH-66 (exceptional stealth and optics, turret gun, Hellfires, and Stinger Cs).

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VEHICLE
    Possible:
  • Nerf M136 burst time so it actually reloads.

    Not Likely:
  • Bradley update to TOW missiles (TOW 2A added). Also, buff the price where needed.
  • Bushmaster reload time and burst length buffed, ROF to 45/50, burst extended to be really, really long.
  • M113 TOW carrier gets TOW 2B.
  • Humvees buffed to 10HP, 1 front AV, and 110 speed (or buffed to 5 pts).
  • M1114 Humvee proto, 10HP, 1AV all around, 120kmh, Gau-19/Mk 19.
  • LAV-25 becomes transport (at least for SMAW). Also, buff armor to 2AV on the front (at least for '90s versions).

    Practically Impossible:
  • Add LOSAT
  • Hellfire Humvee.
  • Add LCAC.
  • ARES 75mm + Stinger on LAV-II

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HELICOPTER
    Possible:
  • Buff Blackhawks to 8HP.
  • Buff landing speeds for large helicopters.
  • Buff all twin engined Cobra HP.
  • Increase chin gun ranges (universal change).

    Not Likely:
  • Buff Vulcan's ability to engage armored Hinds (this is my own suggestion, and TBH I really don't think Cobras perform very well vs Hinds anymore).
  • Buff Cobra prices.
  • Buff M230 HE.

    Practically Impossible:
  • Make the Blackhawk guns fire independent of aircraft position (S-70 already does this).
  • Add MV-22.

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AIRCRAFT
    Possible:
  • F-14 into air tab. (If the F-14B is put in at 1983 with AIM-9Ms, it can be CatB. This would also place it in the correct time period to get AIM-7Ms, if that's your fancy. I'll be damned, it's actually been done.
  • F-16 ECM buffs (A>30% C>40%).
  • Turn rate buffs all around.
    • F-15: 325
    • F-16: 300
    • F-18: 300-325
  • Fixing the fuel "bug". The CAP party is finally here!
  • Buff F-15A veterency or just the Sparrow. Done!
      Give AIM-7F M stats, give Eagle the F, buff M to match other top tier SA MRAAMs.
  • Buff A-10 ECM to 30%.
  • F-111E gets more boom. Done, with extra boom.

    Not Likely:
  • Reroll F-111F into LGB platform (ECM upgrade too). (Done)
  • Reroll A-7E payload (2 Mk 84s, or Walleyes 2 and 3 per card respectively).
  • Reroll F-16C into MLU copy (or have CBU-87s, BLU-10/11).
  • Reroll F-18A as a bomber.
  • Add F-16CJ as SK Block 50/2 copy. <replaces Raven
  • Give F-15D 50% ECM and AMRAAMs or 2 per card.
  • Add A-10 LASTE (modern A-10 with a very accurate gun, 40% ECM, and modern missiles).
  • Reroll Super Hornet as top tier Marine ASF (Vulcan, x4 AIM-120As, x6 AIM-9Rs (65% accuracy AIM-9Ms) or make one of the other Hornets an ASF.
  • Give F-15C newer AMRAAM (65% accuracy).
  • Make all AIM-9s 5HE.
  • Xeno's personal batch:
    If I had total control over the US air tab, I'd make these changes.
    A-10A -> Copy made and named "A-10A LASTE" with 6xAGM-65D
    EF-111A -> F-16CJ (same as ROK)
    F-4G -> 2xAGM-78C, 2xAIM-7F
    F-16A -> 4xBLU-27. 2xAIM-9L
    F-16C -> "F-16C Block 30" 4xMk-84, 2xAIM-9L
    F-111F -> "F-111D"
    F-117 -> F-111F 2xGBU-24 or 2xGBU-15
    F-15A -> 4xAIM-7F, 4xAIM-9L
    F-15D -> "F-15E" 12xCBU-87, 4xAIM-120A

    A-4F -> "F-16C Block 40" 2xAGM-65G, 2xAIM-9M
    AV-8A -> "F-15C Suite 3" 4xAIM-120B, 4xAIM-9M
    A-6A -> "A-6E" 30% ECM
    A-7E -> 6xMk-83
    F-4J -> "F-4N" 4xAIM-7F, 4xAIM-9H
    F-14 -> "F-14A" 4xAIM-7M, 4xAIM-9M
    F/A-18A -> 8xRockeye
    F/A-18E -> Air tab, 4xAIM-120A, 4xAIM-9R

    AIM-7E -> 40% acc
    AIM-7F -> 50% acc
    AIM-7M -> 60% acc

    Practically Impossible:
  • Add F-22.

It's worth pointing out most of these plane changes come from long discussions with our Air Marshal himself.

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NAVAL
  • Burke class.

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Remember, this is merely a compilation and should not be considered the definite needs to happen (though some should) change list for the US. Some of these changes will not work with each other (for obvious balance reasons).

Argue anything you like and contribute to the list, I've obviously missed a lot.


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The Proposals
Now, this thread has proven to be quite a success, which is awesome! Now, I'll also try and get an actual short(ish), reasonable, realistic, and balanced proposal list started so we can get a bigger and more tangible purpose to the thread.

BUSHMASTER
  • Both early and late Bushmasters AP buffed by 1 (to 3 and 4 from 2 and 3).
  • Shot interval reduced to 1.2 (from 2).
  • Shots per burst increased to 4 (from 2).
  • Base reload decreased to 2.2 (from 2.4).
  • Ammo per volley increased to 20 (from 15). RPM will appear to be 206 (from 204).
COMVAT
  • Shot interval reduced to 1 (from 2).
  • Shots per burst increased to 4 (from 2).
  • Base reload decreased to 1.8 (from 2.4).
  • Ammo per volley increased to 20 (from 15). RPM will appear to be 250 (from 204). (COMVAT had better cyclic ROF than Bush)
M47 DRAGON
  • Dragon I to 14 AP.
  • Dragon II to 17 AP.
  • Super Dragon to 20 AP. (there is an image of a Swiss Dragon with tandem warhead penning nearly 1000mm of RHA)
  • Dragon (I and II) range nerfed to 1225m.
  • Super Dragon range nerfed to 1750m.
  • Minimum range removed. (like Eryx)
  • Speed increased slightly.
DELTA FORCE
  • Replace M60E3 with Stoner 63.
  • Replace M72 with Carl Gustaf M2. Done.
  • Nerf price to 30 pts (from 25).
  • Add Blackhawk as a transport option.
    Optional:
  • Rename to Green Berets. (same as Voodoo to Canadian Airborne logic)
  • Add Little Bird as transport. (Mogadishu and stuff)
STINGER
    Stinger A
  • Range to 2450m. (1960m plane)
  • MANPADS to 20 pts.
  • OH-58C nerfed +5 pts. (Lynx and SAS unchanged)
    Stinger C
  • Range to 2450m. (1960m plane)
  • Accuracy nerfed to 65%.
  • MANPADS nerfed to 25 pts.
  • Gepard A2, Machbet, Bo-105P, and Tzefa-E nerfed +5 pts. (DAP covered below)
    Avenger
  • Missile renamed to Stinger RMP Block 1.
  • Range to 2625m. (2100m plane)
  • Accuracy to 65%.
  • Price to 55.
THERMALS
  • M1 and M1IP Abrams to Medium optics. Done.
  • M2 Bradleys to medium optics.
  • COMVAT to medium optics.
TANKS
    M1 Abrams
  • Range to 2275m.
  • Accuracy to 60%.
  • Price to 70 pts.
    M1IP Abrams
  • Range to 2275m.
  • Accuracy to 60%.
  • AP to 16.
  • Price to 90 pts.
    M60A3
  • Range to 2275m.
    Super M60
  • Range to 2275m.
    M60 ERA
  • Range back to 2100m.
  • AP to 17.
  • Price to 60 pts.
    Optional:
  • M1A1 to 20 AP, nerf price by +5. (just for consistency as it should be using the same gun and ammo as the M1A1HA)
AIR TAB
  • F-16A rerolled to HE truck. 4x Mk.84, 2x AIM-9L. ECM to 30%. Price to 145. 1 card 2 Trained.
  • F-15D renamed to F-15E. 12x CBU-87, 4x AIM-120A. ECM to 50%. Price to 190. 1 card 1 Veteran.
  • F-16C rerolled to AGM multirole. 2x AGM-65G, 2x AMRAAM. ECM to 40%. Price to 165. 1 card 2 Trained, 1 Elite.
  • F-111F renamed to F-111D.
  • F-111E renamed to F-111F. 2x GBU-24 (1000kg). Price to 125. 1 card 2 Trained, 1 Elite.
    Optional:
  • AIM-7E to 40%.
  • AIM-7F to 50%.
  • AIM-7M to 60%.
  • AIM-9s all to 5 HE.
  • F-15 turn radius to 325.
  • F-16 turn radius to 300.
  • F-18 turn radius to 350.
    Xeno's personal list:
    Spoiler : :
    If I had total control over the US air tab, I'd make these changes.
    A-10A -> Copy made and named "A-10A LASTE" with 6xAGM-65D
    EF-111A -> F-16CJ (same as ROK)
    F-4G -> 2xAGM-78C, 2xAIM-7F
    F-16A -> 4xBLU-27. 2xAIM-9L
    F-16C -> "F-16C Block 30" 4xMk-84, 2xAIM-9L
    F-111F -> "F-111D"
    F-117 -> F-111F 2xGBU-24 or 2xGBU-15
    F-15A -> 4xAIM-7F, 4xAIM-9L
    F-15D -> "F-15E" 12xCBU-87, 4xAIM-120A

    A-4F -> "F-16C Block 40" 2xAGM-65G, 2xAIM-9M
    AV-8A -> "F-15C Suite 3" 4xAIM-120B, 4xAIM-9M
    A-6A -> "A-6E" 30% ECM
    A-7E -> 6xMk-83
    F-4J -> "F-4N" 4xAIM-7F, 4xAIM-9H
    F-14 -> "F-14A" 4xAIM-7M, 4xAIM-9M
    F/A-18A -> 8xRockeye
    F/A-18E -> Air tab, 4xAIM-120A, 4xAIM-9R

    AIM-7E -> 40% acc
    AIM-7F -> 50% acc
    AIM-7M -> 60% acc
BLACKHAWKS
  • Buff HP to 8. (one of the only helos in the game that actually can claim to theoretically become more survivable with two engines)
  • Nerf DAP to 75 pts.
CARBINES
  • CAR-15 turned into a carbine.
  • M727 turned into a carbine. Done.
APC/IFV ARMOR
  • LAV-25 to 2 AV front and sides. (Orc noted)
  • LAV-25 Scout nerfed to 35 pts.
Last edited by KattiValk on Sat 14 Jan 2017 00:53, edited 60 times in total.

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Re: US Change List

Postby Wolf In Arms » Wed 23 Sep 2015 04:53

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Fixing Rangers
Wolf In Arms wrote:In the wealth of US infantry back-and-forth, Rangers tend to be either forgotten or (at best) shuffled off as possible candidates for Shock infantry. The issue with this, and with leaving Rangers in the current status quo, is that it is historically inaccurate to their role. Iris had previously made a thread about this over two years ago, which has a wealth of source material on the subject - of which I will be citing some of the most critical points.

Part #1: The Problem With Rangers

First and foremost, the current Rangers unit in Wargame seems to represent Vietnam-era Ranger companies: these units held their parent regiment in the 75th Infantry Regiment, but for all intensive purposes were independent companies that acted as reconnaissance units for the divisions and brigades they were assigned to. By 1974, however, there were only two Ranger companies remaining that had not yet been deactivated (p.34). These two companies were used to form the basis for two new Ranger battalions.

Spoiler : :
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However, the Ranger battalions themselves were not to be used for reconnaissance purposes: rather, they were envisioned as direct-action light infantry, akin to the WW2 era Ranger battalions or British Commandos (p.60-61).

Spoiler : :
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In fact, the Rangers only gained a reconnaissance-intended unit in 1984, when the two existing battalions were joined by a third battalion, headquarters company, and the Regimental Reconnaissance Company (RRC) - thus creating the modern 75th Ranger Regiment. However, the RRC was only intended to service the Ranger Regiment and the rest of JSOC as a whole. As such, the RRC was only composed of 18 men - which included a headquarters detachment (p.53).

Spoiler : :
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Additionally, their historical usage in combat has consistently been aligned with the intent of acting in the capacity of a special operations light infantry unit. Iris' thread contains several examples of this as well, such as their roles in the respective invasions of Panama and Grenada.

All of this evidence points to the conclusion that Rangers in the US deck are being inaccurately represented: rather, that as a special operations unit specializing in direct action, they should be akin to the Royal Marines.

Part #2: How to Fix Rangers, and What to Replace Their Role With

In order to accurately portray the US Army Rangers in Wargame, I propose moving them to the Infantry tab and splitting them into a Cat-C and Cat-A unit.
  1. Rangers '75 - (CAR-15 / M67 RR / M60 'Shorty') - 30pts.
  2. Rangers '90 - (CAR-15 / Carl Gustav M3 / Minimi) - 35pts.

Both units would be ten-man Elite squads, gaining the same transport options as current Delta Force (plus Blackhawks!). Additionally, the CAR-15 would be given carbine stats. As such, Rangers '90 could conceivably be given a Prototype tag to dim their availability.

To replace Rangers in the Recon tab, Cavalry Scouts would be rerolled into a ten-man Cat C Shock unit, while retaining their current transports. There are two feasible loadout options:
  1. Cavalry Scouts - (M16 / M47 Dragon / M60E3) - 25pts.
  2. Cavalry Scouts - (M16 / M67 RR / M60E3) - 25pts.

While the M47 choice would be easier and allow Cav Scouts to retain the weapon model, the M67 RR would add some unique recoiless rifle flavor to the US infantry selection that was actually used (unlike the CG M2).

Part #3: What To Do About US SF

With Rangers becoming a new SF unit in the Infantry tab, the status quo would need to change. First, Delta Force could be rerolled into a Cat B anti-infantry squad (as proposed by kiheerSEDMAN).
  1. Delta Force - (MP5SD / M72A4 LAW / M84 Flashbang) - 35pts.

This would allow them to serve as the US deck's principle town unit: using the morale/stun-impacting M84 (modeled after its W:EE equivalent) in close tandem with their SMG. While not capable of fending off much more than a light vehicle, this would allow a US player choice in their special forces: whether to go with a more ubiquitous Rangers '75/'90 card that would be well-endowed as a spearheading brawler, or to go with a more specialized Delta Force card that would give them the leg-up in very specific situations.

Likewise, since Delta Force has (as of patch v.61340) been given a CG-M2, another two possible loadouts for them would be:
  1. Delta Force - (MP5SD /Carl Gustav M2 / M84 Flashbang) - 40pts.
  2. Delta Force - (MP5SD /Carl Gustav M2 / Stoner 63) - 40pts.

This would keep the CG-M2 change while gearing Delta Force towards being more town-based anti-infantry. The M84 Flashbang would be more work to implement, but would be a more unique option than an LMG.

Additionally, with Delta Force becoming the US deck's principle anti-infantry SF unit, Navy SEALs could see a minor loadout change as a result.
  1. Navy SEALs - (AKM / Carl Gustav M2 / Stoner 63) - 35pts.

Not only would this given Marine decks an actually-competent recon infantry unit, but it would allow SEALs to engage HVTs and armor - effectively letting them fulfill their recon infantry designation, instead of acting as niche and costly town-fighters.

In conclusion, these changes would give US decks more appropriate representation primarily regarding Rangers, but also their special forces as a whole.


Part #4: Addendum
As the original post quoted here has been edited somewhat (due to it having been made prior to the Delta Force changes in patch v.61340), this Addendum has been included as an notification of that.

Now, carry on Americans!

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Last edited by Wolf In Arms on Sat 31 Dec 2016 07:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US Change List

Postby Narcissistic Black » Wed 23 Sep 2015 05:05

people should make a list like this for every country..
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Re: US Change List

Postby wargamer1985 » Wed 23 Sep 2015 05:10

kiheerSEDMAN wrote:So, what with the map DLC coming soon, there is also a slim chance for a balance patch coming soon after, and even if that doesn't happen, we could always (try to) make that community mod we always talk about but never really finish.

I'd like discussion of balancing the US to get touched on as much as possible here (even things we know probably are too time consuming to add like rerolls and new units) and I'll try and update the OP with everything we agree (and disagree) on. The list will try to be as comprehensive as possible and I strongly suggest everyone to at least try and pitch in without starting flame wars. Sadly, the OP of the old American Units thread has been MIA from these forums for a really long time, so we can't quite hijack that thread for these purposes (though if a mod sees fit, they can take up the mantle by obliterating this from existence and using the old thread).

NOTE: these changes are not meant to be the end all be all as the official forums only make up a small portion of the community and we never agree on anything anyway. :lol:

I'll start the OP off with everything I remember off the top of my head.

GENERAL
    Possible:

    Not Likely:
  • Stinger range buff and accuracy nerf (Stinger C would probably still retain its accuracy).
  • Significant M134 buff (this is not what the Vulcan uses, and this is my own suggestion).

LOGISTICS
    Possible:
  • LAV CV price buff.
  • M114 price buff.
  • M577 price buff.
    ^all my own suggestions

    Not Likely:
  • LAV supply unit.

INFANTRY
    Possible:
  • Buff M60 (and its variants).
  • Fix Sea Knight availability.
  • Give Deltas '75 the CG on their backs.
  • Make Assault Engineers actually useful.

    Not Likely:
  • Give Riflemen '90 the M249.
  • Give Marines '90 the SMAW.
  • Give Delta the Stoner 63.
  • Add Rangers '90 (M16/4, CG M3, M249) (Elite?).
  • Add Deltas '90 (M16/4, AT4, M249).
    *M4 would act as carbine (CQC bonus).

SUPPORT
    Possible:
  • Paladin price/ROF/armor buff (not all at once obviously).
  • Avenger price buff (would not apply if Stingers are buffed).

    Not Likely:
  • Remove Patriot.
  • Remove ATACMS.
  • Add HE MLRS.
  • BRADATS
  • LAV-AD

TANK
    Possible:
  • Buff M60 line (please suggest changes).
  • Buff Sheridan, Starship, and MBT-70 HE to 5 or 6 and increase Shillelagh accuracy.
  • Nerf M8 AGS price by 5 points.

    Not Likely:
  • Buff HA to HC stats.
  • Buff HC to have A2 armor.

RECON
    Possible:
  • Buff Cav Scouts (price?).
  • Nerf M3A2 price (5 or 10 points).
  • Sheridan changes apply here.
  • Nerf Longbow back to 1 shot per volley.

    Not Likely:
  • Sniper team.
  • Shock Marine recon.
  • Swap Delta and SEAL roles.

VEHICLE
    Possible:

    Not Likely:
  • Bradley's get correct TOW missiles (TOW 2A added).
  • Bushmaster is buffed.
  • M113 TOW carrier gets TOW 2B.

HELICOPTER
    Possible:
  • Buff landing speeds for large helicopters.
  • Buff all twin engined Cobra HP.
  • Increase chin gun ranges (universal change).
  • Nerf DAP price (5-10 points).

    Not Likely:
  • Make the Blackhawk guns fire independent of craft position (S-70 already does this).
  • Buff Vulcan's ability to engage armored Hinds (this is my own suggestion, and TBH I really don't think Cobras perform very well vs Hinds anymore).
  • Buff M320 HE.

AIRCRAFT
    Possible:
  • F-14 into air tab.
  • F-16C ECM buff.
  • Turn rate buffs all around.
  • Fixing the fuel "bug".
  • Buff F-15A veterancy or just the Sparrow.

    Not Likely:
  • Reroll F-111F into LGB platform (ECM upgrade too).
  • Reroll F-16C into MLU copy.
  • Reroll F-18A as bomber.
  • Add F-16CJ as SK Block 50/2 copy.
  • Give F-15D 50% ECM and AMRAAMs.
  • Add A-10 LAST.
  • Reroll Super Hornet as top tier Marine ASF.
  • Give F-15C newer AMRAAM.
  • Make all AIM-9s 5HE.
  • Add F-22.

NAVAL

Remember, this is merely a compilation and should not be considered the definite needs to happen (though some should) change list for the US. Some of these changes will not work with each other (for obvious balance reasons).

Argue anything you like and contribute to the list, I've obviously missed a lot.

I will be adding color coding soon. Also, if this experiment works out, I will be making identical ones for other nations.

I will respond to the things I think need responding to (both the great and meh)
1. Stinger A/C Range buff
R: I think the Stinger A and C could both use a range buff. As Iris and plenty of sources have proven that the Stinger actually had a longer range then the Mistral. So I would propose the following:
Stinger C: 2625m range, 60% accuracy (basically a Mistral clone)
Stinger A: 2450m range (not authentic but for balance reasons) 50% accuracy (no change here)
But I agree with you here.
2. M134 Minigun buff
R: THIS, oh so much THIS. The M134 currently has terribly underrepresented ROF and its range and accuracy are poor (and before someone says it has 1 HE which is over buffed let me remind you that we have 5.45mm and 5.56mm rifles with 1 HE) I would suggest the following:
M134: 4000 rof (or whatever the YAK-B has currently) and an accuracy buff to 30%. This will be balanced out by the M134s low range.
3. M60 MMG Buff
R: I generally agree, I think the M60 should be an accurate but slow firing MG (same with the PKM) here is what I think should happen with these two:
PKM: Accuracy > 50%
M60: Accuracy > 50%
This will make US line infantry a bit more useful, although I would greatly prefer them getting the M249.
4. Remove Patriot and ATACMS
R: Yes, for the love of god please do this. Move the Patriot over to Japan and re-role the ATACMS into a weaker but faster ROF Smerch kinda MRLS
5. M60 Patton buff
R: Don't forget its M48 pal! But yes, the M60 (among others) line needs a hefty buff. Here is what we can do (only going to put stats for the M60A3 as I am not able to check other stats)
M60A3: Accuracy: 55% > 60% (it was using the M1 Abrams FCS after all), AP: 13 > 16 and move up the intro date to 1984 (this means the M60A3 would be using the M833 APFSDS round) range: 2100m >2275m (It had one of the worlds most advanced FCS during its time, but the same buff should apply to the Abrams among many other tanks)
6. Buff 152mm Boom cannons
R: You already know what I think about this buff :D
7. Nerf M8 AGS price
R: I agree, currently its over performing.
8. Buff M1A1[HA] to M1A1[HC] stats
R: Fully agree, both the M1A1[HC] and the M1A1[HA] should be using the M829A1 APFSDS, which had performance equal to (and in some cases superior to) the Soviet 3BM46 "Svinets" APFSDS round so at the very least the M1A1[HA] and the M1A1[HC] deserve 21-22 AP (only reason for them to ave 21 AP is for balance). Of course a price increase might be necessary with these buffs
9. Buff the M1A1[HC] armor to the M1A2 level
R: In reality the M1A1[HC] used a very similar kind of Burlington armor (most commonly called "Chobahm") to that on the M1A2, they essentially had the same armor set (although the M1A2 had a slightly more protected turret) so in game they should have the same armor ratings. However the M1A1[HC] should cost around the cost of the Leopard 2A5 (especially if the M829A1 gets its deserved 22 AP)
10. Nerf Longbow to one volley
R: Eh, I am kind of on a limb here, the Longbow is currently a very niche unit, being very vulnerable but powerful and I think this Nerf would push it over the edge into the category where no one ever sees it again. If this Nerf must go through I think the Longbow would deserve a availability buff.
11. Bradley gets correct missiles
R: I really think just giving the M2A1 the BGM-71D (TOW-2) would suffice, as the TOW-2A would only really give a +1 AP, and is more work than it is really worth.
12. M113 ATGM carrier getting the TOW-2B
R: This would certainly make this carrier useful, but might make it OP, considering a properly represented TOW-2B would have 28-30AP. However, I think if we give it 28 AP and then give it to the M113 it could be manageable. I also think it would be nice to see the TOW-2 Humvee get the TOW-2B (although at a slightly increased price)
13. Buff M230s HE
R: This is both realistic and would add nice variety to all M230 choppers. In reality the 2A42 mounted on the Mi-28, Ka-50 and Ka-52 had superior AT performance, but had less of a HE charge. In game this is perfectly represented by the 2A42 having +1 AP but the M230 having +1 HE.
14. F-16C ECM Buff
R: Yes yes yes yes...yes, again this is both realistic and would greatly help the USAF (although not tackling the root of the problem for the F-16 series) the F-16A should get 30% ECM and the F-16C should get 40% ECM.
15. Turn rate buffs
R: Something along the lines of:
F-15: 325
F-16: 300
F-18: 300-325
16. F-15A Buff
R: I do agree the F-15A should get a vet buff (2 Elite) however, it should also get the AIM-7F, not the AIM-7M (but the AIM-7F should really have the current AIM-7M stats and the AIM-7M should get 7700m range and 60% accuracy)
17. F-16C into a MLU copy
R: I agree
18. F-15D getting 50% ECM and AMRAAMs
R: I would be glad about this or the F-15D simply getting 2 per card
19. A-10 LAST
R: The LAST should replace the A-10A and it should simply be a A-10A with 30% ECM, a 50-60% accuracy GAU-8 (:twisted:) and AGM-65Ds (50% accuracy and 26 AP) and a price of 160 (the SU-25T needs a buff as well though)
20. Make the F/A-18E into a Marine ASF
R: I would love this, although it will never happen, my dream is:
F/A-18E
x6 AIM-120As (so the F-15C can get the AIM-120Bs without the F/A-18E being plainly superior)
x6 AIM-9Rs (65% accuracy AIM-9Ms)
Price: 180
21. Give F-15C newer AMRAAMs
R: Yes please, the AIM-120B would be great (65% accuracy) price to 175
22. All AIM-9s to 5 HE
R: This just needs to happen.

Those are my thought, and even though many things won't happen its just a brain-storming list
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DeckCheney
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Re: US Change List

Postby DeckCheney » Wed 23 Sep 2015 05:31

Before getting into the issues of USA's infantry and planes TABs- I'd like to press the meager suggestion that low end cobras recieve a price buff- specificially the Sea Cobra for 70pts- brought to 65pts, the 60pts Cobra buffed to 45pts, and the 40pt cobra with miniguns buffed to 30pts.

___

An accuracy/stabiliser buff for post 80s Cobra's Vulcan's would also be welcome.
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Re: US Change List

Postby Solo » Wed 23 Sep 2015 05:44

In entrust you with advocating for US changes.

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Bullfrog
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Re: US Change List

Postby Bullfrog » Wed 23 Sep 2015 05:47

I was going to pick apart your thread like I'm some dedicated forum poster, but halfway threw I realized the work load isn't worth it.

So even though there are things that I disagree with or just wrong (as far as I'm aware)... I'm going to give you a big ol general +1
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Re: US Change List

Postby 5P00N3D » Wed 23 Sep 2015 05:49

This is a joke

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Re: US Change List

Postby raventhefuhrer » Wed 23 Sep 2015 05:53

Generally all +1

I should do threads like this for some of the nations I like, but I feel like I'd just be wasting my time :?
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Mike
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Re: US Change List

Postby Mike » Wed 23 Sep 2015 05:56

The F-15D not having 50% ECM is more a bug to me. It's like if you made the rifle on Marines less accurate than the rifle that Riflemen are using.
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