kiheerSEDMAN wrote:So, what with the map DLC coming soon, there is also a
slim chance for a balance patch coming soon after, and even if that doesn't happen, we could always (try to) make that community mod we always talk about but never really finish.
I'd like discussion of balancing the US to get touched on as much as possible here (even things we know probably are too time consuming to add like rerolls and new units) and I'll try and update the OP with everything we agree (and disagree) on. The list will try to be as comprehensive as possible and I strongly suggest everyone to at least try and pitch in without starting flame wars. Sadly, the OP of the old American Units thread has been MIA from these forums for a really long time, so we can't quite hijack that thread for these purposes (though if a mod sees fit, they can take up the mantle by obliterating this from existence and using the old thread).
NOTE: these changes are not meant to be the end all be all as the official forums only make up a small portion of the community and we never agree on anything anyway.
I'll start the OP off with everything I remember off the top of my head.
GENERALNot Likely:
- Stinger range buff and accuracy nerf (Stinger C would probably still retain its accuracy).
- Significant M134 buff (this is not what the Vulcan uses, and this is my own suggestion).
LOGISTICSPossible:
- LAV CV price buff.
- M114 price buff.
- M577 price buff.
^all my own suggestions
Not Likely:
- LAV supply unit.
INFANTRYPossible:
- Buff M60 (and its variants).
- Fix Sea Knight availability.
- Give Deltas '75 the CG on their backs.
- Make Assault Engineers actually useful.
Not Likely:
- Give Riflemen '90 the M249.
- Give Marines '90 the SMAW.
- Give Delta the Stoner 63.
- Add Rangers '90 (M16/4, CG M3, M249) (Elite?).
- Add Deltas '90 (M16/4, AT4, M249).
*M4 would act as carbine (CQC bonus).
SUPPORTPossible:
- Paladin price/ROF/armor buff (not all at once obviously).
- Avenger price buff (would not apply if Stingers are buffed).
Not Likely:
- Remove Patriot.
- Remove ATACMS.
- Add HE MLRS.
- BRADATS
- LAV-AD
TANKPossible:
- Buff M60 line (please suggest changes).
- Buff Sheridan, Starship, and MBT-70 HE to 5 or 6 and increase Shillelagh accuracy.
- Nerf M8 AGS price by 5 points.
Not Likely:
- Buff HA to HC stats.
- Buff HC to have A2 armor.
RECONPossible:
- Buff Cav Scouts (price?).
- Nerf M3A2 price (5 or 10 points).
- Sheridan changes apply here.
- Nerf Longbow back to 1 shot per volley.
Not Likely:
- Sniper team.
- Shock Marine recon.
- Swap Delta and SEAL roles.
VEHICLENot Likely:
- Bradley's get correct TOW missiles (TOW 2A added).
- Bushmaster is buffed.
- M113 TOW carrier gets TOW 2B.
HELICOPTERPossible:
- Buff landing speeds for large helicopters.
- Buff all twin engined Cobra HP.
- Increase chin gun ranges (universal change).
- Nerf DAP price (5-10 points).
Not Likely:
- Make the Blackhawk guns fire independent of craft position (S-70 already does this).
- Buff Vulcan's ability to engage armored Hinds (this is my own suggestion, and TBH I really don't think Cobras perform very well vs Hinds anymore).
- Buff M320 HE.
AIRCRAFTPossible:
- F-14 into air tab.
- F-16C ECM buff.
- Turn rate buffs all around.
- Fixing the fuel "bug".
- Buff F-15A veterancy or just the Sparrow.
Not Likely:
- Reroll F-111F into LGB platform (ECM upgrade too).
- Reroll F-16C into MLU copy.
- Reroll F-18A as bomber.
- Add F-16CJ as SK Block 50/2 copy.
- Give F-15D 50% ECM and AMRAAMs.
- Add A-10 LAST.
- Reroll Super Hornet as top tier Marine ASF.
- Give F-15C newer AMRAAM.
- Make all AIM-9s 5HE.
- Add F-22.
NAVALRemember, this is merely a compilation and should not be considered the definite needs to happen (though some should) change list for the US. Some of these changes will not work with each other (for obvious balance reasons).
Argue anything you like and contribute to the list, I've obviously missed a lot.
I will be adding color coding soon. Also, if this experiment works out, I will be making identical ones for other nations.
I will respond to the things I think need responding to (both the great and meh)
1. Stinger A/C Range buff
R: I think the Stinger A and C could both use a range buff. As Iris and plenty of sources have proven that the Stinger actually had a longer range then the Mistral. So I would propose the following:
Stinger C: 2625m range, 60% accuracy (basically a Mistral clone)
Stinger A: 2450m range (not authentic but for balance reasons) 50% accuracy (no change here)
But I agree with you here.
2. M134 Minigun buff
R: THIS, oh so much THIS. The M134 currently has terribly underrepresented ROF and its range and accuracy are poor (and before someone says it has 1 HE which is over buffed let me remind you that we have 5.45mm and 5.56mm rifles with 1 HE) I would suggest the following:
M134: 4000 rof (or whatever the YAK-B has currently) and an accuracy buff to 30%. This will be balanced out by the M134s low range.
3. M60 MMG Buff
R: I generally agree, I think the M60 should be an accurate but slow firing MG (same with the PKM) here is what I think should happen with these two:
PKM: Accuracy > 50%
M60: Accuracy > 50%
This will make US line infantry a bit more useful, although I would greatly prefer them getting the M249.
4. Remove Patriot and ATACMS
R: Yes, for the love of god please do this. Move the Patriot over to Japan and re-role the ATACMS into a weaker but faster ROF Smerch kinda MRLS
5. M60 Patton buff
R: Don't forget its M48 pal! But yes, the M60 (among others) line needs a hefty buff. Here is what we can do (only going to put stats for the M60A3 as I am not able to check other stats)
M60A3: Accuracy: 55% > 60% (it was using the M1 Abrams FCS after all), AP: 13 > 16 and move up the intro date to 1984 (this means the M60A3 would be using the M833 APFSDS round) range: 2100m >2275m (It had one of the worlds most advanced FCS during its time, but the same buff should apply to the Abrams among many other tanks)
6. Buff 152mm Boom cannons
R: You already know what I think about this buff
7. Nerf M8 AGS price
R: I agree, currently its over performing.
8. Buff M1A1[HA] to M1A1[HC] stats
R: Fully agree, both the M1A1[HC] and the M1A1[HA] should be using the M829A1 APFSDS, which had performance equal to (and in some cases superior to) the Soviet 3BM46 "Svinets" APFSDS round so at the very least the M1A1[HA] and the M1A1[HC] deserve 21-22 AP (only reason for them to ave 21 AP is for balance). Of course a price increase might be necessary with these buffs
9. Buff the M1A1[HC] armor to the M1A2 level
R: In reality the M1A1[HC] used a very similar kind of Burlington armor (most commonly called "Chobahm") to that on the M1A2, they essentially had the same armor set (although the M1A2 had a slightly more protected turret) so in game they should have the same armor ratings. However the M1A1[HC] should cost around the cost of the Leopard 2A5 (especially if the M829A1 gets its deserved 22 AP)
10. Nerf Longbow to one volley
R: Eh, I am kind of on a limb here, the Longbow is currently a very niche unit, being very vulnerable but powerful and I think this Nerf would push it over the edge into the category where no one ever sees it again. If this Nerf must go through I think the Longbow would deserve a availability buff.
11. Bradley gets correct missiles
R: I really think just giving the M2A1 the BGM-71D (TOW-2) would suffice, as the TOW-2A would only really give a +1 AP, and is more work than it is really worth.
12. M113 ATGM carrier getting the TOW-2B
R: This would certainly make this carrier useful, but might make it OP, considering a properly represented TOW-2B would have 28-30AP. However, I think if we give it 28 AP and then give it to the M113 it could be manageable. I also think it would be nice to see the TOW-2 Humvee get the TOW-2B (although at a slightly increased price)
13. Buff M230s HE
R: This is both realistic and would add nice variety to all M230 choppers. In reality the 2A42 mounted on the Mi-28, Ka-50 and Ka-52 had superior AT performance, but had less of a HE charge. In game this is perfectly represented by the 2A42 having +1 AP but the M230 having +1 HE.
14. F-16C ECM Buff
R: Yes yes yes yes...yes, again this is both realistic and would greatly help the USAF (although not tackling the root of the problem for the F-16 series) the F-16A should get 30% ECM and the F-16C should get 40% ECM.
15. Turn rate buffs
R: Something along the lines of:
F-15: 325
F-16: 300
F-18: 300-325
16. F-15A Buff
R: I do agree the F-15A should get a vet buff (2 Elite) however, it should also get the AIM-7F, not the AIM-7M (but the AIM-7F should really have the current AIM-7M stats and the AIM-7M should get 7700m range and 60% accuracy)
17. F-16C into a MLU copy
R: I agree
18. F-15D getting 50% ECM and AMRAAMs
R: I would be glad about this or the F-15D simply getting 2 per card
19. A-10 LAST
R: The LAST should replace the A-10A and it should simply be a A-10A with 30% ECM, a 50-60% accuracy GAU-8 (:twisted:) and AGM-65Ds (50% accuracy and 26 AP) and a price of 160 (the SU-25T needs a buff as well though)
20. Make the F/A-18E into a Marine ASF
R: I would love this, although it will never happen, my dream is:
F/A-18E
x6 AIM-120As (so the F-15C can get the AIM-120Bs without the F/A-18E being plainly superior)
x6 AIM-9Rs (65% accuracy AIM-9Ms)
Price: 180
21. Give F-15C newer AMRAAMs
R: Yes please, the AIM-120B would be great (65% accuracy) price to 175
22. All AIM-9s to 5 HE
R: This just needs to happen.
Those are my thought, and even though many things won't happen its just a brain-storming list
