Re: The Save the Commonwealth thread

APSinc
Chief Warrant Officer
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed 3 Sep 2014 09:56
Contact:

Re: The Save the Commonwealth thread

Postby APSinc » Wed 21 Oct 2015 06:29

kiheerSEDMAN wrote:ADATS:
    65-70% accuracy
    3325m anti-helo
    2800-3500m anti-plane
    [HEAT][GUID][AOE]
    100-120 points.
    2/3 availability with 2 cards.

The availability nerf is hard, but at 65% accuracy and SEAD immunity would probably make it worth it. It's faster than a Chap, so that would probably make up for it's low avail (dodge mortar SEAD).

I just wish there were a way to make it prioritize targets, or have the ground attack be a separate weapon with the same ammo pool so we can turn it off. Challenger/Chieftain Marksmen are handy for armored pushes (you can leave the gun on and not worry too much about SEAD), but adding the ADATS for missile defense in a push means it will too often get distracted by the ground units and not shoot at the planes/helos instead (generally if it sees the ground unit first).

But I suppose the targeting issue is more an engine problem than a game balance issue. Still, any buff to ADATS would be great. 105 or 110 points for the above would probably be ideal, as it's not quite PATRIOT effective, but can't be SEADed and is still relatively slow (unlike Starstreak). And some slightly more cost-efficient AA isn't that bad. The ADATS is proto, right? So that the dumb mixed BLU argument can't be used?

User avatar
KattiValk
General
Posts: 6319
Joined: Tue 19 Nov 2013 03:39
Location: Houston, Texas (CST)
Contact:

Re: The Save the Commonwealth thread

Postby KattiValk » Wed 21 Oct 2015 06:39

The ADATS would be top tier IR AA for both plane and helo and also be the premier ATGM vehicle in the game. That would cost 110 or more.

APSinc
Chief Warrant Officer
Posts: 555
Joined: Wed 3 Sep 2014 09:56
Contact:

Re: The Save the Commonwealth thread

Postby APSinc » Wed 21 Oct 2015 07:04

Yeah, thinking about it, the Tung-M costs 100. So 120 wouldn't be bad if it was so good.

90pts at it's current effectiveness is just terrible. But I take it with Canada cause what else do you have?

jhfts
Command Sergeant Major
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue 21 Jan 2014 04:47
Contact:

Re: The Save the Commonwealth thread

Postby jhfts » Wed 21 Oct 2015 07:25

Xeno426 wrote:ADATS still has horrible accuracy, rather negating its non-radar advantage (the enemy will fire more accurate AT missiles) and it will routinely waste missiles on ground targets...

Seriously, there is no real reason to pick CW over BLUEFOR multi. Most of the CW's good kit is available in that deck, with a lot of the special snowflake units not really worth it. Again, BD gets use in competitive and ranked matches; CW does not.


You put me in an awkward situation. The BLUFOR side of me plays Commonwealth a great deal already, and would be happy for even gratuitous buffs. The REDFOR side, however, realizes that some serious balance issues could arise from major buffs to an already well-equipped faction.

Take ADATS. An accuracy buff to ~70%, even with associated price nerfs, might make the unit a good AA asset, but would likely wreck its AT balance. With 25 AP and 2800m range, it would nail anything that came even remotely close, in the air or on the ground. No SEAD here, so how the heck do you counter it?

I guess the basic thrust of my argument is that 'you can't have it all'. The price of having some very sharp spears (A.S. 90, SAS, Eurofighter) is that you get some dull ones too - something that goes for every lineup in the game.

The other issue is that many of the proposed buffs seem of low priority compared with more seriously compromised units. If the Chieftain / Challenger is not quite competitive, it's still entirely usable; I'd much rather see attention lavished on units that are completely broken, whether in Commonwealth (Every Centurion tank in CMW, Saladin, etc.) or elsewhere (the entire NK tank lineup). Buffing efficient, high-tier offerings like the Kahu or Lynx seems strange when there are entirely unusable things like the A-37B or CH-118 SS-11 flying about.

brammel
Specialist
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat 29 Jun 2013 01:26
Contact:

Re: The Save the Commonwealth thread

Postby brammel » Wed 21 Oct 2015 09:39

The only reason i stopped playing comm is the speed on their AA.

its nice and all that tanks drive at 50-60km/h. but if your AA cant keep up theyll just die horribly.
having bad range is one thing, but 35km/h? imean, my grandma goes faster then that.

other than that i think commonwealth is one of the more powerfull factions already.
stacks of gurkhas and heavy tanks. while not the most cost-efficient, their availability is ENORMOUS.

just give comm 2 cards of stormers, and id be happy. or make their rapiers immune to detracks, so atleast they travel at a "steady" 35km/h rather then an actual 10km/h.

User avatar
DeckCheney
Colonel
Posts: 2732
Joined: Sun 16 Aug 2015 01:32
Location: The Feudal Kingdom of White Suburbia- Seattle
Contact:

Re: The Save the Commonwealth thread

Postby DeckCheney » Wed 21 Oct 2015 09:42

jhfts wrote:Take ADATS. An accuracy buff to ~70%, even with associated price nerfs, might make the unit a good AA asset, but would likely wreck its AT balance. With 25 AP and 2800m range, it would nail anything that came even remotely close, in the air or on the ground. No SEAD here, so how the heck do you counter it?


You make the ground trait a separate, less accurate weapon.
The USA is #1 exporter of freedom!
All other countries have inferior freedom!

User avatar
Wep0n
Specialist
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu 3 Sep 2015 13:22
Contact:

Re: The Save the Commonwealth thread

Postby Wep0n » Wed 21 Oct 2015 10:46

the weakness of ground to air AA in commonwealth is so bad that i do not enjoy playing this coalition on a competitive level anymore. Neither their support AA nor the infantry AA have any good options against jets. although the guided missiles from infantry and some support vehicles like ADATS or the non radar rapier are great against helos.

It is really weird how one of the biggest strenghts of an island like england are tanks, but it lacks good ground to air missiles to defend itself against jets. i mean come on, what the hell. one would think they learned from ww2 :roll:

User avatar
molnibalage
General
Posts: 6700
Joined: Thu 1 Aug 2013 22:54
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: The Save the Commonwealth thread

Postby molnibalage » Wed 21 Oct 2015 11:58

Tanks
The only tank which costs 100+ points and is any good is the Chally 2, sadly you only get two of them. The leopards are nice but fragile and no substitute for heavy armor.

All Chally tanks are good they are just built by different conception in RL and this is represented in WG:RD.

They are a bit slower than other tanks and some of them have weaker firepower but against general med tanks they are better. The most common T-72B1/B have enough firepower to deal even with 120-130CP tanks because 18AP gun and 22HEAT. Against such tank spam UK tanks are much more protected while even the less powerful gun has enough HP and ACC to make real dmg.

Buff the Jaguar GR1'As price or buff the missile accuracy, as it stands its useless and a total liability.

Or buff the avail simlar to oldest MiG-27. 0/3/0/0/2.

Buff the availability of the Kahu back to 3 per card. A 600kmh plane is generally not much of a threat against competent opposition particularly now ASF's have received a range buff and spaags and missile AA have been significantly improved.

Is this the best A-4 variant? Because in this case this is a bad idea. Not the speed should be determine the avail of a unit... The loadout and general capabilies. And best A-4 because of slow speed and good turn radius can make side hit very easily and can turn back before MANPAD can launch in most of cases. In fact Kahu is much more powerful as it looks at first sight.

Either buff the ECM of the F111C to 20% in line with the other varks or make it 2 cards of 1.

Which current loadout? No. In first step should get RL loadout, the 8xMk-84 is simply wrong. Give it 4xMk-84 and very high XP to decrease the pattern area. Also deserves the 20% ECM if both US F-111 can have 20%.

Abot inf. The inf. roster is not so bad but why too many inf. - especially SAS - lacks cheap transport or land trasport at all. This is quite strange while VDV can have tons of differnt from cheapest the most powerful...

User avatar
nrader
Chief Warrant Officer
Posts: 687
Joined: Tue 8 Jul 2014 14:27
Location: Donbass.
Contact:

Re: The Save the Commonwealth thread

Postby nrader » Wed 21 Oct 2015 13:12

jhfts wrote:Go play Red Dragons or Landjut, and then come back and tell me that Commonwealth is in a bad spot.

Both are way better than Commonwealth, especially red dragons
jhfts wrote:Consider that you get:
- One of the best high-tier air-superiority aircraft in the game (Eurofighter), and a not-bad set of mid-tier fighters (CF-188, Tornado F.2 & F.3).

F.3 and CF-188 is just bad. Eurofighter and F.2 is good, though.
jhfts wrote:- Top-tier artillery - A.S-90 as well as M110A2 R.A.

Yeah, except the fact you dont always have a free points to buy an arty(in conquest, at least).
jhfts wrote:- Well-armored top-tier tanks. The Challanger 1, for example, has frontal armor that matches or exceeds the AP of similarly priced tanks (i.e T-80A, T-80BV, T-64BVI).

The chally line is slow and have bad RoF(except chally2 and, maybe, mk3). The red mentioned t64\t80 all have 9RoF and autoloaders, plus have tank ATGMs plus reds have HE mlrs to lower your morale and your RoF even lower.
jhfts wrote:- Lots of unique and powerful units. A 25-AP missile squad that can attack Infantry (Eryx). AA units with a long-range Anti-armor capability (Starstreak & ADATS). A really fast armored car that has excellent AP (Vickers Mk.11). Flamethrower troops and Miniguns (Sappers + M113 Minigun). The list goes on...

Eryx is short-ranged. ADATS cost too much and have bad accuracy, the only good blue flame-infantry is m202 flash which commonwealth does not have. Vickers are awesome but the problem is commonwealth doesnt have good tools to support it at the start of the game(wheeled AA, i mean. The wolverine is bad)
jhfts wrote:- A rocket-firing transport heli that US doesn't get (Lynx AH. 7)
- An absurdly well-armored IFV (Warrior 90 / Warrior 90 MILAN) and a really good cheap one (TH-495).

Commonwealth does not have cheap cost-effective AA helo to cover those AH.7. Lynx 3 is too costly for that work.
And the warriors is bad due to rarden gun. TH is good but avail. only to canadian riflemans and sappers.
jhfts wrote:Does the Commonwealth have weaknesses?

It have too much weaknesses.
Image

User avatar
molnibalage
General
Posts: 6700
Joined: Thu 1 Aug 2013 22:54
Location: Hungary
Contact:

Re: The Save the Commonwealth thread

Postby molnibalage » Wed 21 Oct 2015 13:23

Eryx is short-ranged. ADATS cost too much and have bad accuracy

The 45% base ACC for an A cat proto unit is simply funny. In WG are such prototypes which RL never entered service and they were failed projects. These are treated as they were successful projects. Following this aspect ADATS should have at least 60% base ACC. If C cat Coratale can have 60% base ACC...

Return to “Wargame : Red Dragon”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests