Fine-tuning NK/China

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Demonicjapsel
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Demonicjapsel » Fri 30 Sep 2016 15:35

Fade2Gray wrote:Watching Deck trying to White Knight is so amusing. Not just any old kind of White Knighting, Edgy White Knighting for that matter!

frostypooky wrote:my problem is they need to go further, timeline for NK should be extended to 2016 :) in all fairness, yes, the 1992 "Chonmaho V" (Chonma-92) is supposed to be 115mm with one step of armor and accuracy over CMH-IV, and new turret design. but i guess its nowhere near as goofy as some Euro additions considering that a 125mm 16AV 19AP tank can be justified with actual NK developments in 2000s


You know, we are already in an alternate timeline sort of deal right now. Instead of the Soviets dumping "cool shit" like T-90s and BTR-80as on Juche, ditch those "campaign units" and instead go with the Soviets giving them "technical advice" that bumps their development forward a bit.

The Soviets helping Dear Leader field a 125mm gun on a Chnomaho doesn't seem so outlandish, at least in my opinion.


I think its more of an engineering problem then anything else. the way i see it, while its a heavily modified T-62 chassis, i doubt the turret ring is big enough to fit the soviet 125mm.

if you want to bend the timeline, simply assume that the Soviet/Norks develop a refinement of the BM-28 DU round, that has better penetration and can be fired from the same gun the Norks are familiar with.

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Xan Kriegor » Fri 30 Sep 2016 15:41

I don't understand all the rage against the Chonma-Ho V... It's just a cheiftain mk 11 you will pay 10 pts more because of it's FAV. But for +2 FAV you lose 1 Top AV, 5% accurancy and 10% stabs ! If this tank is op then cheiftain mk 11 op too.

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby frostypooky » Fri 30 Sep 2016 15:44

yeah, that's my primary concern with the public info that sides with "NK made autoloaded 125mm 'Pokpungho' in 1992"... even with slightly enlarged turret i don't see 2A46+autoloader being viable on the core T-62 platform. hence why you didnt see 125mm until the enlarged Chonma-2xx and Songun series (and even then neither are autoloaded in all likelihood) according to the most verified telling of NK tank development.

at any rate, it seems like a better filler for NK national after your T-90 pick, can't remember ZTZ-85IIA or USSR 90-100pt tank stats off top of head but not sure itd be so competitive with the acc+RPM in coalition, and I dont see how this stands up to a Leo 2A1 at all

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Razzmann » Fri 30 Sep 2016 16:04

terror51247 wrote:
frostypooky wrote:my problem is they need to go further, timeline for NK should be extended to 2016 :) in all fairness, yes, the 1992 "Chonmaho V" (Chonma-92) is supposed to be 115mm with one step of armor and accuracy over CMH-IV, and new turret design. but i guess its nowhere near as goofy as some Euro additions considering that a 125mm 16AV 19AP tank can be justified with actual NK developments in 2000s

lol @ "op"

55% acc
7rpm

yea good luck with that

Make some calculations.That thing will manage to defeat a leopard2a1(100pts) more than 50% of the time.Chonma 5 has the stats of a 100 point tank.It doesnt even deserve those stats.Both armor and ap values are pure fantasy.

I kinda doubt the 2A1 will lose that often, the Chonma Ho has no autoloader after all.
Also the 2A1 is overpriced anyways.

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby DeckCheney » Fri 30 Sep 2016 16:12

Demonicjapsel wrote:if you want to bend the timeline, simply assume that the Soviet/Norks develop a refinement of the BM-28 DU round, that has better penetration and can be fired from the same gun the Norks are familiar with.


Do we even know anything about DPRK munitions? I presume there's some official tech exchange/sales with the DPRK documented in the early cold war with either China or USSR, but towards to 90s as the DPRK got progressively isolated- most of its hardware exchange was limited with Iran and Syria.

We're also severely underrating the DPRK's own engineering capacity; the Chonma isn't an upgraded T-62, rather a fully redesigned T-62, I'd expect that during their transition to self-reliance in hardware production; there were likewise modifications/upgrades to tank munitions.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby DeckCheney » Fri 30 Sep 2016 16:16

frostypooky wrote:be nice now



skip to 1:46


No hablo Korean-o, but aren't these guys basically reservists?
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby remilia019 » Fri 30 Sep 2016 16:24

Not sure what's the outrage of the new Pokpungho stats, like most others said, that rpm is gonna drop to oblivion after a couple of shots
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby hansbroger » Fri 30 Sep 2016 17:02

Pakistan managed to cram a 125mm gun into their Al-Zarrar Type-59 MBT upgrade and I read somewhere of some Ukrainian company placing the T-80UD turret on a stretched T-62 chassis (still looking for the pic) so I mean you can fit a 125mm into the chassis.

However they probably would have gotten really good performance out of a long rod DU/tungsten penetrator with the 115mm due to a lack of autoloader dimension restrictions (It's a really long round). Also, how do we know the dear leader didn't decide to expand the chamber and boost the powder load behind that APFSDS-T? There's so much room for glorious Juche Speculation. Imo with DU penetrators the 115mm caliber gun could see performance approaching or matching that of western 120mm tungsten penetrators if the correct know-how was available.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Fri 30 Sep 2016 17:19

Wow, Chonma gets buffed and the usual suspects are losing their mind. :shock:

Personally i was kinda expect the tank to land in the 90 pts region, what surprises me is the 125mm gun like many others. I think it should go back to 115mm and with it the 18 AP.

Other than that the unit is fine. For authenticity issues people needs to consider that NK info are largely unavailable, so a precise estimate of the performance is difficult. The IRL reference kinda ends with the awareness of the basic characteristics of the said tank (115mm, better armor and so on), what should take precedence is the ingame storyline of Soviet assistance in the 90s, which can be used as gameplay reasoning for the current stats of Chonma 5.

CUALEB_operator wrote:doubts about 15 men shock troops


The issue with Luzhandui is they are inherently less cost effective. The 5 extra HP doesn't help in most cases, since their dps remains mostly the same compared to 10 men troops, a premium of 5 pts for such questionable advantage is too much, especially when luzhandui will get beaten by 10 men minimi shock most of the time.

Jeogockdae needs a price cut, since their MG is pretty bad (dunno how they are right now after the patch). 15 men '90s infantry at 25 pts is an ok buy.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby CandyMan » Fri 30 Sep 2016 17:23

keldon wrote:Wow, Chonma gets buffed and the usual suspects are losing their mind. :shock:

Personally i was kinda expect the tank to land in the 90 pts region, what surprises me is the 125mm gun like many others. I think it should go back to 115mm and with it the 18 AP.

Other than that the unit is fine. For authenticity issues people needs to consider that NK info are largely unavailable, so a precise estimate of the performance is difficult. The IRL reference kinda ends with the awareness of the basic characteristics of the said tank (115mm, better armor and so on), what should take precedence is the ingame storyline of Soviet assistance in the 90s, which can be used as gameplay reasoning for the current stats of Chonma 5.
.


What is the point of a 25 pt price increase if the firepower would remain the same as Ch'onma-Ho IV? I'd rather pay 65 if all the difference in price is giving me just 5% higher accuracy.
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