Fine-tuning NK/China

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Admiral Piett
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Admiral Piett » Fri 30 Sep 2016 18:49

Anyone know if Gongbobyong are still stuck with a [STAT] Type 73 MG, or did they get a shock version?

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Bougnas » Fri 30 Sep 2016 18:53

keldon wrote:
Bougnas wrote:
Are they now available to other specs?


nope, still marines. This really should be changed if RD specializations want to be competitive.


Well it sounds that the MG rebalance still has a few weaknesses so I imagine that Eugen may release a new patch soon after this one to polish the changes to infantry (and other changes) when they will have a clear idea of the new meta.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby remilia019 » Fri 30 Sep 2016 19:16

CUALEB_Operator wrote:
CUALEB_operator wrote:doubts about 15 men shock troops


The issue with Luzhandui is they are inherently less cost effective. The 5 extra HP doesn't help in most cases, since their dps remains mostly the same compared to 10 men troops, a premium of 5 pts for such questionable advantage is too much, especially when luzhandui will get beaten by 10 men minimi shock most of the time.

Jeogockdae needs a price cut, since their MG is pretty bad (dunno how they are right now after the patch). 15 men '90s infantry at 25 pts is an ok buy.



With the new MG patch which they nerfed the 81 into an oblivion, yes, it's gonna get rekt by minimi inside out. But in the pass the 81 is second to almost no MG (other than the MG3). I don't recall losing to any 10 men minimi shocks at all.

Yet again, for a 25+15 investment, 5 more pts doesn't bankrupt you. A 10 men squad is significantly more fragile than 15 men, especially without bias firepowers like PF3 or MG3. You run into a Charlie-Foxtrot, you got stunned, and you're wiped. 15 men has much better chance to survive and getaway. I made the points clear in the previous post already.


What in Mao's name?! :shock:

81 was nerf'd?! I need to better check the MG thread, there was so many images I got lazy @_@
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Fri 30 Sep 2016 19:33

remilia019 wrote:What in Mao's name?! :shock:

81 was nerf'd?! I need to better check the MG thread, there was so many images I got lazy @_@


Lost its comparative strength is a better and less confrontational description to use. :D
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Bougnas » Fri 30 Sep 2016 19:34

Did the J-8C get better accuracy on the missile?
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby DeckCheney » Fri 30 Sep 2016 19:36

keldon wrote:From a performance perspective the added 5 HP doesn't really help you put out significantly more damage, and at low moral you will basically at the same dps as any other 10 men squad. The only advantage is you can hold enemy back a bit longer due to the extra HP, but you pay way too much for this feature


I concur with the previous complaints against Chinese Marines; they were a competitive unit as a 15man squad with the best RedFor MG, their only issue was being tied to the marine specialisation and lack of wheeled/good airborne transports. 5pts is a small price to pay for the added utility of a 15man squad, and while they aren't cost-efficent in an infantry grind- they've better battlefield uses; frontal assault with fire support/last longer in forest conbat/etc. I'd prefer if the changes were reverted to them and they'd be given access to the WZZ-551 and Mechanised Spec (also subliminal Li Ren nerf can suck it).

Honestly all marine units geared toward amphibious landing should be avaliable in mechanised (US/ROK/Royal Marines/Blue Berets), likewise rapid reaction main units should have access to motorises decks (USSR Marines/Rima- Korps Mariner already have access). I'd further argue that the marine spec should just be removed (when's the last time you've seen anybody use a marine deck in competitive play), and the remaining units decided up amongst the other specialisationss.

The root of arguments for rerolling Chinese Marines stem from RD's lack of shock troops avaliable to specs outside of general/marine- likewise Gongbobyung being pretty terrible. The better candidate for a reroll would have been DPRK marines since they lack a meaningful role (Redundant with Yuckyeondae), and likewise suffer from atrocious DPS/transport options.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby chainsaw » Fri 30 Sep 2016 19:54

DeckCheney wrote:I concur with the previous complaints against Chinese Marines; they were a competitive unit as a 15man squad with the best RedFor MG, their only issue was being tied to the marine specialisation and lack of wheeled/good airborne transports. 5pts is a small price to pay for the added utility of a 15man squad, and while they aren't cost-efficent in an infantry grind- they've better battlefield uses; frontal assault with fire support/last longer in forest conbat/etc. I'd prefer if the changes were reverted to them and they'd be given access to the WZZ-551 and Mechanised Spec (also subliminal Li Ren nerf can suck it).

Honestly all marine units geared toward amphibious landing should be avaliable in mechanised (US/ROK/Royal Marines/Blue Berets), likewise rapid reaction main units should have access to motorises decks (USSR Marines/Rima- Korps Mariner already have access). I'd further argue that the marine spec should just be removed (when's the last time you've seen anybody use a marine deck in competitive play), and the remaining units decided up amongst the other specialisationss.

The root of arguments for rerolling Chinese Marines stem from RD's lack of shock troops avaliable to specs outside of general/marine- likewise Gongbobyung being pretty terrible. The better candidate for a reroll would have been DPRK marines since they lack a meaningful role (Redundant with Yuckyeondae), and likewise suffer from atrocious DPS/transport options.


Rereoll jeogockdae is a better option since it's faster with wheeled vehicles. If it is cheaper, it could be a good option to deploy at the start of the match. Of course, whether it is viable to use or not at last depends on Eugen's work on MG of jeogockdae.
PS. jeogockdae actually literally means 'sniper team'. Don't mistake it with something with sniper rifle. NK has the TO&E of so-called sniper brigade to act as elite infantry, but not special forces, and they have bunch of them. They are not marines technically, but can do kind of missions of landing from offshore. So I think smaller team is better to suit its name.

However, all in all, I want RD to have a new, viable shock inf that have access to all deck and vehicles first.
Last edited by chainsaw on Fri 30 Sep 2016 20:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Xeno426 » Fri 30 Sep 2016 19:54

Admiral Piett wrote:Anyone know if Gongbobyong are still stuck with a [STAT] Type 73 MG, or did they get a shock version?

Nope, they still have the same stat MG that Bochongsu have.
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CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Fri 30 Sep 2016 19:57

DeckCheney wrote:The root of arguments for rerolling Chinese Marines stem from RD's lack of shock troops avaliable to specs outside of general/marine- likewise Gongbobyung being pretty terrible. The better candidate for a reroll would have been DPRK marines since they lack a meaningful role (Redundant with Yuckyeondae), and likewise suffer from atrocious DPS/transport options.


Yes, thats the root of the whole issue.

In a coalition enviroment i would rather see the luzhandui get the rerole and move into various other decks, simply based on the fact that PF-89 is better than type-69-III. The NK marines could be a decent buy if they don't pay 5 pts premium for being 15 men, but alas every 15 men squads will be powerful if they don't pay the premium. To make NK shock and elite different we need to just give yuckjeondae the RPK et voila better SF right here. Authenticity wise it is also not an issue since Soviet in game went buddy buddy with Asians in 1991.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby DeckCheney » Fri 30 Sep 2016 19:58

chainsaw wrote:PS. jeogockdae actually literally means 'sniper team'. Don't mistake it with something with sniper rifle. NK has the TO&E of so-called sniper brigade to act as elite infantry, but not special forces, and they have bunch of them. They are not marines technically, but can do kind of missions of landing from offshore. So I think smaller team is better to suit its name.


DPRK could get a 10 man shock, sniper team infantry? Basically an infantry tab version of Prumuczi? Would be ultra flavorful.
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