Fine-tuning NK/China

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DeckCheney
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby DeckCheney » Fri 30 Sep 2016 20:05

keldon wrote:To make NK shock and elite different we need to just give yuckjeondae the RPK et voila better SF right here.


Making Yuckyeondae better doesn't adress the matter that DPRK marines are redundant; outclassed by both Yuckyeondae and Chinese Marines. Granted the RPD needs a ROF buff, there's no reason RD needs 2x marine units that do the same thing. I'm not against Yuckyeondae '90 buffs though.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby chainsaw » Fri 30 Sep 2016 20:07

DeckCheney wrote:DPRK could get a 10 man shock, sniper team infantry? Basically an infantry tab version of Prumuczi? Would be ultra flavorful.


Sniper Brigade is just a name borrowed from Soviet. Soviet has sniper division in WWII, which is more mobile to use as rear defensing and front penetration thanks to its equipment and mobility. Its name doesn't mean whole division is sniper. You can regard such division and brigade as elite infantry division or brigade. I am afraid that jeogockdae won't get sniper rifle like Pruskumnci.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Fri 30 Sep 2016 20:12

DeckCheney wrote:
keldon wrote:To make NK shock and elite different we need to just give yuckjeondae the RPK et voila better SF right here.


Making Yuckyeondae better doesn't adress the matter that DPRK marines are redundant; outclassed by both Yuckyeondae and Chinese Marines. Granted the RPD needs a ROF buff, there's no reason RD needs 2x marine units that do the same thing. I'm not against Yuckyeondae '90 buffs though.


I understand. The issue is RD roster is inherently redundant on many things. There are different ways how eugen can make adjustments, rerole 1 marine squad into 10 men all purpose shock squad is one of them. Since eugen is kinda stuck with marine squad on coalition level, one of those units is getting the short end of the stick one way or other.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby DeckCheney » Fri 30 Sep 2016 20:21

keldon wrote:I understand. The issue is RD roster is inherently redundant on many things. There are different ways how eugen can make adjustments, rerole 1 marine squad into 10 men all purpose shock squad is one of them. Since eugen is kinda stuck with marine squad on coalition level, one of those units is getting the short end of the stick one way or other.


Chinese marines weren't bad before/after this patch; DPRK marines are still bad. It's clear to see which unit should be rerolled.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Fri 30 Sep 2016 21:47

DeckCheney wrote:
keldon wrote:I understand. The issue is RD roster is inherently redundant on many things. There are different ways how eugen can make adjustments, rerole 1 marine squad into 10 men all purpose shock squad is one of them. Since eugen is kinda stuck with marine squad on coalition level, one of those units is getting the short end of the stick one way or other.


Chinese marines weren't bad before/after this patch; DPRK marines are still bad. It's clear to see which unit should be rerolled.


If you can rerole one of them into a allrounder shock, which would you pick? The arguably worse Jeogockdae or the Luzhandui? One is not bad the other is lackluster, one is soon 10 men and other still 15 and cost ineffective. Just by usefullness the luzhadui would be more beneficial to many deck types. Jeogockdae needs to somehow come down 5 pts for it to be decent, one idea is to give them the type-69-I, since the launcher is below the 23 AP one and can be considered a sidegrade with no price increase to the original rpg.

To make clear, i would be totally fine if both of them got out of the marine straightjacket, but as it currently stands the luzhandui is a better candidate. Also there is the IRL infos i provided for a allrounder Chinese shock unit, besides the current luzhandui doesn't have the bluish marine uniform as their unitmodel. :lol:
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby terror51247 » Fri 30 Sep 2016 21:55

hansbroger wrote:Pakistan managed to cram a 125mm gun into their Al-Zarrar Type-59 MBT upgrade and I read somewhere of some Ukrainian company placing the T-80UD turret on a stretched T-62 chassis (still looking for the pic) so I mean you can fit a 125mm into the chassis.

However they probably would have gotten really good performance out of a long rod DU/tungsten penetrator with the 115mm due to a lack of autoloader dimension restrictions (It's a really long round). Also, how do we know the dear leader didn't decide to expand the chamber and boost the powder load behind that APFSDS-T? There's so much room for glorious Juche Speculation. Imo with DU penetrators the 115mm caliber gun could see performance approaching or matching that of western 120mm tungsten penetrators if the correct know-how was available.

Do you really think that the hermit kingdom would be able to design a 115mm ammo thats almost as strong as comtemporary 120mm?
Thats just complete fantasy.They are a third world hellhole that dont even have a proper industrial base.There no way they have the technical ability to build up to date penetrators.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby terror51247 » Fri 30 Sep 2016 22:01

DeckCheney wrote:
terror51247 wrote:Instead of callling me biased do some fuking math.The chonma 5 will hit the 2a1 4.2 times per minute.It needs to hit it 4 times to kill which gives an average time to kill of 57 secs.Leo2a1 will hit the chonma 5 5.85 times per minute which gives 51.2 secs to kill(i did the first calc wrong).Either way the damn thing has great chances against a 2a1.It will demolish other tanks in its price range like the K1 and the t72B.


Except you forgot to quantify accuracy/RoF decay. Once the initial shots are exchanged the succession of shots will always be in favor of the Leopard, since it has more accuracy, it's more likely to land the follow up shots, and those shots will inflict morale damage before the Chonma fires.

The Chonma 5 is a prime example of a "Hard Stats" tank; it's functional on paper, not as useful in praticality. I recognise it's still a good unit; it should absolutely stay that way. This is the first time I've seen the DPRK anything remotely competitive/cost effective.

Accuracy loss is proportional with accuracy.They will lose the same porpotion of their firepower as long as one isnt particulary lucky and have the same veterancy.All one has to know if those tanks are functional in that price range is to check their "time to kill" against their price peers.They are already really strong against weaker units so it doesnt really matter.Then theres still the authenticity problem.The chonma 5's stats are pure fantasy.Theres no way that thing is as armored as Late production series T64B.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby 47andrej » Fri 30 Sep 2016 22:38

Its just the old 3D model which dont changed, even the gun is still the same. Later Chonmas had ERA mounts on the front so you can think of this one to be fully ERA equipped. On the 125mm, I'm 100% sure northkoreans experimented a lot with their tanks, more so after Gulf war debacle for Iraq. Pokpung-Ho rumors doesnt came out of nothing. Its more justified than inclusion of T-90S, Chimera or Merkava IIIB armor value :lol:

Would be nice to have small 3D rework on Chonma-Ho V model. Eugen pls :)

Also gib manpads on tanks

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby hansbroger » Fri 30 Sep 2016 22:45

terror51247 wrote:
hansbroger wrote:Pakistan managed to cram a 125mm gun into their Al-Zarrar Type-59 MBT upgrade and I read somewhere of some Ukrainian company placing the T-80UD turret on a stretched T-62 chassis (still looking for the pic) so I mean you can fit a 125mm into the chassis.

However they probably would have gotten really good performance out of a long rod DU/tungsten penetrator with the 115mm due to a lack of autoloader dimension restrictions (It's a really long round). Also, how do we know the dear leader didn't decide to expand the chamber and boost the powder load behind that APFSDS-T? There's so much room for glorious Juche Speculation. Imo with DU penetrators the 115mm caliber gun could see performance approaching or matching that of western 120mm tungsten penetrators if the correct know-how was available.

Do you really think that the hermit kingdom would be able to design a 115mm ammo thats almost as strong as comtemporary 120mm?
Thats just complete fantasy.They are a third world hellhole that dont even have a proper industrial base.There no way they have the technical ability to build up to date penetrators.


A: Why do they have to come up with it indigenously when it can peak at whatever China buys from USSR/France/Israel which includes 120mm long rod penetrators at least as capable as DM-43? As well as the 125mm ammo it and the PRC are getting from the USSR ITF in game there's plenty to copy.

B: Their manufacturing sector is in many ways very advanced for how backwards and impoverished the country is. If they supply much of the developing world's SRBM/Rocket systems expertise why can't they make a decent APFSDS-T? Especially if they just copy it?

C: DPRK DU is best DU.

With the field guidance of the Dear Leader anything is possible. I agree and I'm sure their engineers were not originally up to the task, they know it deep down, which is why you see them get their notebooks out when the Dear Leader comes to inspect their work.

The Glorious Leader probably told them to make it longer, thicker pointier and out of DU with a larger charge behind it. Barrel wear probably sucks but does the Dear Leader actually think these tanks are going to be around long enough to wear them out?
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Admiral Piett » Fri 30 Sep 2016 22:52

My issue is, and remains, why it has a 125mm gun. It shouldn't. Ch'onma Vs don't have them. Period. It is literally a fictional vehicle. The first stuff to possibly get 125mm guns are post-2000, and are the beginning of a different tank family (Ch'onma-2XX).

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