Fine-tuning NK/China

User avatar
keldon
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2044
Joined: Tue 16 Sep 2014 16:38
Location: Liebe Grüße aus Stuttgart
Contact:

Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Fri 30 Sep 2016 17:29

CandyMan wrote:What is the point of a 25 pt price increase if the firepower would remain the same as Ch'onma-Ho IV? I'd rather pay 65 if all the difference in price is giving me just 5% higher accuracy.


Wasn't the 18 AP already very generous? At the current price and with that nice armor the Chonma 5 will do fine, even with 18 AP. But honestly i was expecting to see at least 60% accuracy on that tank.
Image
> Sources for tuning Red Dragons --- Sources for tuning Blue Dragons <
亲们!大国梦哦!
小钱钱,真心甜,鼓钱包,放腰间,大国梦,早日圆 。啷个哩个啷♪

User avatar
hansbroger
Lieutenant General
Posts: 4428
Joined: Sun 28 Jul 2013 03:45
Contact:

Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby hansbroger » Fri 30 Sep 2016 17:40

CandyMan wrote:Image

Chonma Ho V trades rpm for ap, 2 mg for hmg all while having snail speed and lower FAV. How is it OP again?


I concur the bloody thing isn't OP at all and there should be more like it. In fact in the most RELEVANT comparison it compares favorably with the Chieftan Mk. 11 so pricing seems appropriate. As well 19 AP is completely within the growth potential of the 2A20 (given suitable know-how which is believable considering a certain eastern neighbor was looking at modern western 120mm APFSDS-T at the time). People can go ahead and fetishize the 19 AP (go ahead and leave out the better accuracy and much better stabs...) but the K1's 70 km/h speed and 3 top armor are nothing to scoff at, good luck trying LoS shenanigans with 55 km/h speed and that same speed and the Chonma V's 2 top armor leaves it disgustingly vulnerable to 6 AP clusters. It's entirely reasonable.

I'm super chuffed right now! 7 r/m!!! New turret+muh small loader finally = reasonable RoF in a T-62!!! IMO the 125mm is a typo, it's still listed as the 2A20, the 2A20 would be capable of at least 20 ap if a long rod penetrators were incorporated and/or they decided to bore out the gun and increase the powder charge behind it. The PLA at the time is using a 120mm smoothbore in the 21 AP class and a 125mm smoothbore in the same AP class, again the DPRK 2A20 is firing ammunition that is not limited by arbitrary autoloader dimensions and firing domestically produced ammunition designed by famously iconoclastic engineers, who knows what they've managed to wring out of that round.
Last edited by hansbroger on Fri 30 Sep 2016 18:00, edited 2 times in total.
Projectnordic in game! will likely see you on pact/red dragons/french!
Image

CUALEB_Operator
Corporal
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed 18 Feb 2015 07:17
Contact:

Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby CUALEB_Operator » Fri 30 Sep 2016 17:42

CUALEB_operator wrote:doubts about 15 men shock troops


The issue with Luzhandui is they are inherently less cost effective. The 5 extra HP doesn't help in most cases, since their dps remains mostly the same compared to 10 men troops, a premium of 5 pts for such questionable advantage is too much, especially when luzhandui will get beaten by 10 men minimi shock most of the time.

Jeogockdae needs a price cut, since their MG is pretty bad (dunno how they are right now after the patch). 15 men '90s infantry at 25 pts is an ok buy.



With the new MG patch which they nerfed the 81 into an oblivion, yes, it's gonna get rekt by minimi inside out. But in the pass the 81 is second to almost no MG (other than the MG3). I don't recall losing to any 10 men minimi shocks at all.

Yet again, for a 25+15 investment, 5 more pts doesn't bankrupt you. A 10 men squad is significantly more fragile than 15 men, especially without bias firepowers like PF3 or MG3. You run into a Charlie-Foxtrot, you got stunned, and you're wiped. 15 men has much better chance to survive and getaway. I made the points clear in the previous post already.

User avatar
another505
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 13128
Joined: Sun 21 Jul 2013 05:18
Location: Hiatus
Contact:

Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby another505 » Fri 30 Sep 2016 17:46

I think people forget that Chomaho 5 is a pure AT tank, It certainly should be able to kill tanks above it slightly like leo2a1

however, as a medium tank, its lack really in the other skills of providing fire support and DPS. and firesupport role is really important for medium tanks over heavies and super heavies.
The best counter example of CH-5 would be C2 Mexas which excels in fire support and dps, and its being used a lot.
Image
Of Salt

User avatar
Admiral Piett
Colonel
Posts: 2910
Joined: Sun 12 Feb 2012 22:04
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Admiral Piett » Fri 30 Sep 2016 17:52

I'm not at all thrilled that it has a 125mm, but it will indisputably be a nice tank in game.

User avatar
keldon
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2044
Joined: Tue 16 Sep 2014 16:38
Location: Liebe Grüße aus Stuttgart
Contact:

Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Fri 30 Sep 2016 18:12

CUALEB_Operator wrote:With the new MG patch which they nerfed the 81 into an oblivion, yes, it's gonna get rekt by minimi inside out. But in the pass the 81 is second to almost no MG (other than the MG3). I don't recall losing to any 10 men minimi shocks at all.

Yet again, for a 25+15 investment, 5 more pts doesn't bankrupt you. A 10 men squad is significantly more fragile than 15 men, especially without bias firepowers like PF3 or MG3. You run into a Charlie-Foxtrot, you got stunned, and you're wiped. 15 men has much better chance to survive and getaway. I made the points clear in the previous post already.


From a cost perspective 5 points will add up quite fast and compared to some 20 points shock you are at a disadvantage when fielding toops with same amount of pts (2x30 vs. 3x20).

From a performance perspective the added 5 HP doesn't really help you put out significantly more damage, and at low moral you will basically at the same dps as any other 10 men squad. The only advantage is you can hold enemy back a bit longer due to the extra HP, but you pay way too much for this feature. Also, Minimi is arguably better than type-81 pre MG balance (due to better burst length) and it will be after the rebalance (due to almost everything).
Image
> Sources for tuning Red Dragons --- Sources for tuning Blue Dragons <
亲们!大国梦哦!
小钱钱,真心甜,鼓钱包,放腰间,大国梦,早日圆 。啷个哩个啷♪

User avatar
Sgt._Pepper
Lieutenant
Posts: 1422
Joined: Sat 15 Jun 2013 10:57
Location: South Tyrol, Italy
Contact:

Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Sgt._Pepper » Fri 30 Sep 2016 18:16

Have Lu Zhandui been changed to 10 men? It seemed to me that Razzmann said that...
Image

User avatar
keldon
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2044
Joined: Tue 16 Sep 2014 16:38
Location: Liebe Grüße aus Stuttgart
Contact:

Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Fri 30 Sep 2016 18:19

Sgt._Pepper wrote:Have Lu Zhandui been changed to 10 men? It seemed to me that Razzmann said that...


Yes, but the type-81 MG lost its comparative strength.
Image
> Sources for tuning Red Dragons --- Sources for tuning Blue Dragons <
亲们!大国梦哦!
小钱钱,真心甜,鼓钱包,放腰间,大国梦,早日圆 。啷个哩个啷♪

User avatar
Bougnas
Major-General
Posts: 3699
Joined: Sat 26 Apr 2014 18:24
Contact:

Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Bougnas » Fri 30 Sep 2016 18:33

keldon wrote:
Sgt._Pepper wrote:Have Lu Zhandui been changed to 10 men? It seemed to me that Razzmann said that...


Yes, but the type-81 MG lost its comparative strength.


Are they now available to other specs?

As for CH '92, this thing really blew my expectations :shock: . That's more armor than I thought it would have, which is pretty nice (and actually makes it interesting compared to the ZTZ-85-IIM).

I still think that it should have the 115mm and 60% acc for authenticity, but at this point I don't really mind, that's alternate timeline after all.

I'm really happy to see that what I've found managed to buff RD :D
Image

User avatar
keldon
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2044
Joined: Tue 16 Sep 2014 16:38
Location: Liebe Grüße aus Stuttgart
Contact:

Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Fri 30 Sep 2016 18:47

Bougnas wrote:
keldon wrote:
Sgt._Pepper wrote:Have Lu Zhandui been changed to 10 men? It seemed to me that Razzmann said that...


Yes, but the type-81 MG lost its comparative strength.


Are they now available to other specs?


nope, still marines. This really should be changed if RD specializations want to be competitive.
Image
> Sources for tuning Red Dragons --- Sources for tuning Blue Dragons <
亲们!大国梦哦!
小钱钱,真心甜,鼓钱包,放腰间,大国梦,早日圆 。啷个哩个啷♪

Return to “Wargame : Red Dragon”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 39 guests