Fine-tuning NK/China

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Sgt._Pepper
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Sgt._Pepper » Wed 7 Mar 2018 23:32

I become sad everytime I think about how cool the Red Dragons could have been. :cry:

I hope we will meet the PLA again in a future Wargame and that time properly.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby nuke92 » Sun 11 Mar 2018 01:33

here's a text about NK manpads for everyone and their mother:

https://mobile.twitter.com/luke_j_obrien/status/970851543665790977

To sum it up, NK tank, apc and even artillery crews are training in simulators combat vs air targets. Thought it might be interesting (despite the meme factor).

But anyways, making NK a faction that uses asymmetric tactics, low tech weapons but effective ones (perhaps buffing the dual 14.5mm accuracy to 20%) + exploiting units and their loadouts to the fullest would have transformed it into more than the comic relief for Sovkor that it still is now.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby another505 » Sun 11 Mar 2018 07:23

nuke92 wrote:here's a text about NK manpads for everyone and their mother:

https://mobile.twitter.com/luke_j_obrien/status/970851543665790977

To sum it up, NK tank, apc and even artillery crews are training in simulators combat vs air targets. Thought it might be interesting (despite the meme factor).

But anyways, making NK a faction that uses asymmetric tactics, low tech weapons but effective ones (perhaps buffing the dual 14.5mm accuracy to 20%) + exploiting units and their loadouts to the fullest would have transformed it into more than the comic relief for Sovkor that it still is now.

I never understood why ppl find it crazy or unpractical to have manpads on tanks or apc.
I mean, at least i know Soviet infantry carried manpads basically everywhere. They just store it inside or have someone carry it outside
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Fade2Gray » Sun 11 Mar 2018 07:30

another505 wrote:I never understood why ppl find it crazy or unpractical to have manpads on tanks or apc.

You mean other than you are on top of a big target, totally exposed, without any additional protection? There's a reason why crew serve weapons are transitioning over to RWS.

On top of that, you have the NK military, which apparently barely even trains the majority of its soldiers, not to mention obviously can't feed them properly or give them proper health care, and you want to drop even more training on top of what they already have to do? Combined with how they waste so much time helping farmers?

Yeah, Juche's military is pretty much just there for the LuLz.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby another505 » Sun 11 Mar 2018 08:06

Fade2Gray wrote:
another505 wrote:I never understood why ppl find it crazy or unpractical to have manpads on tanks or apc.

You mean other than you are on top of a big target, totally exposed, without any additional protection? There's a reason why crew serve weapons are transitioning over to RWS.

On top of that, you have the NK military, which apparently barely even trains the majority of its soldiers, not to mention obviously can't feed them properly or give them proper health care, and you want to drop even more training on top of what they already have to do? Combined with how they waste so much time helping farmers?

Yeah, Juche's military is pretty much just there for the LuLz.

I thought Juche more elite forces are very well trained, not sure about its armored force. I wont be surprised they would be more trained than the normal juche since they are handling the expensive hardware. And is it that hard to learn to use a manpad? I mean, rebels use it too.
And is that exposed that can't be used? The anti aircraft gun on tanks are pretty exposing too (the upper half) Though i dont think its a very good idea on a tank that would be in very front in a battle. Apc, spg seems like a not bad idea when you know your big SAM are going to die basically instantly in a fullwar. Decentralized AA seems like a good idea despite being just manpads will still be somewhat a threat.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Sun 11 Mar 2018 16:29

another505 wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:
another505 wrote:I never understood why ppl find it crazy or unpractical to have manpads on tanks or apc.

You mean other than you are on top of a big target, totally exposed, without any additional protection? There's a reason why crew serve weapons are transitioning over to RWS.

On top of that, you have the NK military, which apparently barely even trains the majority of its soldiers, not to mention obviously can't feed them properly or give them proper health care, and you want to drop even more training on top of what they already have to do? Combined with how they waste so much time helping farmers?

Yeah, Juche's military is pretty much just there for the LuLz.

I thought Juche more elite forces are very well trained, not sure about its armored force. I wont be surprised they would be more trained than the normal juche since they are handling the expensive hardware. And is it that hard to learn to use a manpad? I mean, rebels use it too.
And is that exposed that can't be used? The anti aircraft gun on tanks are pretty exposing too (the upper half) Though i dont think its a very good idea on a tank that would be in very front in a battle. Apc, spg seems like a not bad idea when you know your big SAM are going to die basically instantly in a fullwar. Decentralized AA seems like a good idea despite being just manpads will still be somewhat a threat.


Pre 1990 NK was doing ok, including feeding the massive army and training them, after that not so much. However it is reasonably to assume that the elite units is still getting the minimum of training and equipment required to function properly. The majority of the regular troops is a different question though, although i would be cautious to rate things like the threat level only based on the equipment and training, i mean it's not like 2 superpowers didn't had a very tough time dealing with dudettes wearing pyjamas and sandals, especially if the theater of operation happens to be the home turf of the said pyjama wearers. Manpads in this case are also a very often used weapon which are easy to integrate as field AA for a massive landforce.

nuke92 wrote:To sum it up, NK tank, apc and even artillery crews are training in simulators combat vs air targets. Thought it might be interesting (despite the meme factor).


Doesn't surprise me, difficulties breeds unusual approaches. The PLA tankers had a traning program to engage low flying choppers with the maingun, in case the few field AA piece isn't enough to cover you or need time to relocate to your position. Desperate would some say and i agree, but it's how it is, fortunately for PLA such program is unnecessary any more. Can't say the same about NK though.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Shika » Mon 19 Mar 2018 04:33

I'm sure it's been said before. But seriously I think RD is a viable nation..almost.

If you go motorized you lose all your artillery. Boom, deck useless.
If you go mechanized you lose all your anti-plane radar AA. Boom, deck useless. Fighters are garbage at this point compared to others so
If you go armored yay finally get the koksan! Oh wait I have no anti-plane radar aa. Boom deck useless.
If you go airborne you lose to french aa helo spam. I still like airborne RD when I know I can rush a large map like STTP without naval, and on tactical it's still viable because just 2 units of Li Jian '90 can take a whole forest and it's nice having the fast transport and the longest range aa helo. Other than that it has its standard drawbacks of airbone so while it is viable it's very niche.

I like RD's infantry, it's expensive but super strong. Decent tanks, actually a decent support tab, recon and vehicle tabs are up to par...and then it's all useless because if I go thematic I have absolutely nothing in either artillery or air defense, both of which are mandatory to not fold instantly against plane or artillery spam(both of which NATO players do basically every match.) It really is a shame because if it just gave koksan AND either a Pon'gae 5 or an HQ-61 for moto/mech it'd be a totally viable deck.

Why does Eurocorps get awesome artillery and, albeit bad, anti-plane radar AA both on mech and moto but RD is gutted for choosing thematic? I'd rather at least get something mediocre like the Roland 3 so I have some way of defending myself.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Markenzwieback » Mon 19 Mar 2018 10:10

RD mechanized AA is viable alone due to its vetted Iglabuses. I didn't needed heavy AA yet, since I pick my engagement areas according to my need of close-by IR AA. And a dual-stack PGZ-95s can be very lethal too.

All in all, RD mech is one of my go to fun decks right now.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby hansbroger » Mon 19 Mar 2018 17:12

Zsu-57s backed by igla buses are actually surprisingly viable as AA. While they have to be forward deployed and you lose quite a few, they create a convenient radar immune ADN that is especially suitable on built up/closed terrain maps.

Zsu-57 spam is particularly useful against decks that rely upon SEAD and high tier ATGM carriers, though they can get manhandled pretty roughly by clusters if you don't have a critical mass. They're also great against Helos
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Mon 19 Mar 2018 19:11

Shika wrote:I'm sure it's been said before. But seriously I think RD is a viable nation..almost.


It has been said in the past alot and it can't be farther from the truth, also i think you meant to say coalition.

Markenzwieback wrote:RD mechanized AA is viable alone due to its vetted Iglabuses. I didn't needed heavy AA yet, since I pick my engagement areas according to my need of close-by IR AA. And a dual-stack PGZ-95s can be very lethal too.

All in all, RD mech is one of my go to fun decks right now.


Oh, believe me there will be time when you wish you had the HQ-61 or even some 3000m AA in your deck. I won't deny a very aggressive push accompanied by iglabus and PGZ-95 has good potential, a matter of fact RD mech as a deck do indeed has some good potential, but aside from limited AA capability (including ASF) the "strengh" aka infantry simply sucks.

For fun, you may wanna try out RD marine, i had decent successes many patches and DLCs ago.

hansbroger wrote:Zsu-57s backed by igla buses are actually surprisingly viable as AA. While they have to be forward deployed and you lose quite a few, they create a convenient radar immune ADN that is especially suitable on built up/closed terrain maps.

Zsu-57 spam is particularly useful against decks that rely upon SEAD and high tier ATGM carriers, though they can get manhandled pretty roughly by clusters if you don't have a critical mass. They're also great against Helos


I'll express my doubt about the worth of the ZSU-57/Type-80, when they were 20 pts it was a decent base defense, but nowadays? Iglabuses is doing the job better. I also think the NK shilka is doing better than the type-80, 2 of them can actually bringing down some lower ecm planes, not to mention what the burst dmg will do to choppers.

Overall i think "viable" is a term/state that needs a comparison, because in a vaccum every nation in wargame is viable. Only after a comparison you can say if your coalition is truely viable or not.

The only advantage i see in type-80 is the combination of armor+2800 anti helo range+ok-ish suppression. But when it comes to actually killing stuff the iglabus is currently king.
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