Fine-tuning NK/China

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Razzmann
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Razzmann » Fri 6 Apr 2018 22:49

keldon wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9niDM9qmaS0&t=8m30s

Shit that brings back memories. But watching that now, I don't think I ever realized they switched out the suicide bomber with that remote control bomb thingy (We had a cracked English version of the normal game back then, but then a normal store bought version of the base game + zero hour expansion). Back then I always thought the whole "cyborg-ification" had to do with the expansion pack :lol:

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby SMJChildhood » Wed 23 May 2018 11:46

你真的是很有毅力。流泪.png
话说你能不能问下战争游戏的续作何时出。我感觉你都是内部人员了(或者说是内部人员的熟人了)

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keldon
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Fri 25 May 2018 16:06

SMJChildhood wrote:你真的是很有毅力。流泪.png
话说你能不能问下战争游戏的续作何时出。我感觉你都是内部人员了(或者说是内部人员的熟人了)


不会出了,尤金已经放弃了。这家公司的老板不但无能而且对待职员极差,前段时间的罢工就是因为高层违法没发基本工资。

唉。。。

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> Sources for tuning Red Dragons --- Sources for tuning Blue Dragons <
亲们!大国梦哦!
小钱钱,真心甜,鼓钱包,放腰间,大国梦,早日圆 。啷个哩个啷♪

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James-Bond
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby James-Bond » Fri 25 May 2018 23:15

2 years and nearly 399 pages!
How many issues got resolved and what still remains?

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby captaincarnage » Sat 26 May 2018 00:46

James-Bond wrote:2 years and nearly 399 pages!
How many issues got resolved and what still remains?

Wargame Ded Dragon.
I hope your buratino's die screaming.

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keldon
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Sun 27 May 2018 15:36

So, got some new stuff to post.

Supposedly test data from a declassified paper about the 120mm gun used on PTZ-89, which itself is embedded in a post about soviet armor.

original post: http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-1898527-1-1.html

I'll translate the relavant part, there are mainly 2 things to note. FIrst being obviously the 120mm gun itself and secondly the setup used for such tests.

the relevant pics:

Image

Image

I'll mainly translate the first one and comment on the second one.

Here we go.

There are 2 data columns, the left is the design requirments and the right is the tested results.

Design requirments:

- Gun caliber: 120mm smoothbore
- Ammo type: APFSDS, HE, HEAT
- Penetration power: At 1500m it needs to penetrate a type 681 composite target angled at 68° (90% pen on average), direct fire range exceding 2000m.
- Muzzle velocity: 1680-1700m/s, velocity decay per 1000m smaller than 80m/s
- Chamber pressure: 431Mpa under normal temperature. High temperature single shot abnormal pressure mustn't exceed 539Mpa
- Accuracy spread at 1000m target: Strive for 0,3mx0,3m at 1500m
- Operating enviroment temperature: -40 to +50°C
- Gun elevation: -8 to +18°
- Recoil force: smaller or equal to 494,3KN
- Recoil distance: smaller than 450mm
- Barrel endurance: No requirement
- Gun weight: Less than 3000kg (including shield)
- Maintenance: Barrel change without dismounting turret

Tested result:


- Gun caliber: 120mm smoothbore
- Ammo type: Only APFSDS tested, HE untested, HEAT development delayed due to funding issues
- Penetration power: Type 681 composite target plate terminal penetration velocity is 1422m/s; 150mm RHA plate angled at 65° terminal penetration velocity is 1441m/s, extrapolated penetration dstance are all above 3000m
- Muzzle velocity: Average muzzle velocity for 3 sets is 1698m/s, velocity decay per 1000m less than 60m/s
- Chamber pressure: 465Mpa under normal temperature. High temperature single shot abnormal pressure 553Mpa
- Accuracy spread at 1000m target: 0,12mx0,27m at 1000m
- Operating enviroment temperature: -40 to +50°C
- Gun elevation: -8 to +18°
- Recoil force: Maximum recoil is 563KN
- Recoil distance: smaller than 410mm
- Barrel endurance: No overall endurance tests conducted, after the trial the chamber wear already exceeded 3mm.
- Gun weight: Less than 3000kg (including shield)
- Maintenance: Specific tank chassis and layout were not taken into consideration

I think the most interesting is the pen power stuff, in the second pic the type 681 composite armor plate is given a thiccness at 204mm@68°, which is around 544mm at 0° the same number most people will find for the PTZ-89. However consider the target plate is not a steel block but a composite armor block, the true RHA is unknow.

Funny enough aside from the successful test against the composite target, the thiccest RHA target is just a 150mm plate at 65° (354mm RHA). The difference of the two is pretty obvious, and i think this is one of those quirks when it comes to PLA giving those target plates as the max pen power. It's confusing. Now imagine this sort of thing is very likely to apply to RPG and other HEAT weapons too.

The rest of pic too is just a overall comparison to other guns, pen power for NATO stuff and usually given using the NATO standard triple layer heavy target (10/20/80mm RHA plates). I think the numbers are selfevident enough, so i'll slkip translating.

Consider at the test table the HEAT round is still not finished i would assume the whole thing is from 1989 or a bit earlier. Anyway, thought this is interesting and shed some more light onto the test setup for PLA AP stuff and somehow also justifies the AP number eugen did for game balance purposes.
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> Sources for tuning Red Dragons --- Sources for tuning Blue Dragons <
亲们!大国梦哦!
小钱钱,真心甜,鼓钱包,放腰间,大国梦,早日圆 。啷个哩个啷♪

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Steamfunk » Tue 29 May 2018 18:36

Those figures for the 2A46 are wrong - barrel length is 6300mm, 48 calibers.

Barrel endurance: No requirement


What's the barrel like for this gun, is it chrome plated? Manufacture similar to the RM or is it a different process?

Thanks for the info BTW.

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby SMJChildhood » Wed 30 May 2018 13:04

...还是很失望的。但也是意料之中,毕竟前一段时间的罢工就感觉续作嗝屁了。有生之年吧
不过你这么执着的说这么多的数据,制作组也不会管啊。他们应该不会更新了吧。
不过加油 蘑菇头笑.png

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Fodder » Sat 2 Jun 2018 20:15

I think HQ-61 shouldn't be 4.2km ingame but more like TOR or OSA.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military ... -specs.htm

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keldon
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Sat 2 Jun 2018 23:51

Steamfunk wrote:Those figures for the 2A46 are wrong - barrel length is 6300mm, 48 calibers.

Barrel endurance: No requirement


What's the barrel like for this gun, is it chrome plated? Manufacture similar to the RM or is it a different process?

Thanks for the info BTW.


Yeah, noticed it too, thought it was a bit short for the 2A46. Have some theories why they got it wrong, but too much work to crosscheck alot of stuff to see if it's true.

The production methode an knowhow for modern gun was already introduced via Austria for the L7. Rheinmetall added on to that with the necessary tech for 120mm.

Gun endurance tech for China came in 2 parts. Adjusted chemicals in propellant charge and the chrome plating for barrel. The 120mm gun trial however was conducted without coating. All guns after 1990 were received those treatment, for 120mm it's 2 coats of chrome at the rear half of the barrel.

Fodder wrote:I think HQ-61 shouldn't be 4.2km ingame but more like TOR or OSA.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military ... -specs.htm


It was mentioned to eugen at the beta via breadbox and H-J and later also by me, but eugen decided the HQ-61 to be a heavy SAM because they "didn't know" more appropriate candidates exists...

SMJChildhood wrote:...还是很失望的。但也是意料之中,毕竟前一段时间的罢工就感觉续作嗝屁了。有生之年吧
不过你这么执着的说这么多的数据,制作组也不会管啊。他们应该不会更新了吧。
不过加油 蘑菇头笑.png


嗯,我也觉得很可惜。不过仔细想想的话这群废物也是活该。喜欢玩双重标准、说话不算数、把自己的无能和Steel Division的失败怪到粉丝们的头上等等。我这么执着也是冲着他们说的SB废话现场打脸,真是看不惯那个做调查的那种奇葩傲慢感,也就这样出出气。现在呢,就是瓜子、板凳、一瓶啤酒,坐等他们宣布破产。

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> Sources for tuning Red Dragons --- Sources for tuning Blue Dragons <
亲们!大国梦哦!
小钱钱,真心甜,鼓钱包,放腰间,大国梦,早日圆 。啷个哩个啷♪

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