Fine-tuning NK/China

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keldon
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Sun 3 Jun 2018 00:21

So, something for NK this time. I'll summerize/comment the interesting bits.

original link: http://www.zgjunshi.com/world/tanke/zhu ... 63513.html

The Juche Type-93 mod tank, aka Chonma 216 modernized.

- It has now made several appearances across many parades, and noticable evulotion in equipment can be observed.
- The original project is rumored to be from 93 as the name suggests, but for obvious reasons ca. 10 years was lost, the finalization and production was in 2004. Western intelligence first became aware of this tank's existence in 2002 and much later in 2010 the tank went public.
- Supposedly still a V-46 engine with 780 HP
- The gun looks like a 2A20, but is actually enlarged to 125mm. (I think this claim is plausible)
- Due to the worsened gun endurance, high pressure/velocity sabots are bit tricky to pull off. So HEAT rounds are actually advisible in this case.
- This would also explain why almost everything is glued to the tank, including a remote controlled twin AGL
- The chonma 216 mod could be considered a tank/firesupport specialist hybrid, with main gun firing HEAT/APFSDS, AGL suppression, integrated manpads and finally twin Bulkae-3 ATGM for longrange engagements.
- In terms of armor the whole welded turret chonma have what looks like BDD, but the actual composition is unknow, the same can also be said about the main armor. Due to the geometry and welding, it is possible for some sort of inserts for main armor. All in all it should be much better than cast turret level of protection.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Fodder » Wed 6 Jun 2018 02:25

keldon wrote:

I also notice DPRK Mig-29 R-27T are short range A2A missiles instead of BVR missiles ingame. I know it's intentional but I think RD could've had another ASF instead of another short range fighter.

keldon wrote:So, got some new stuff to post.

original post: http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-1898527-1-1.html

Image

Image

Design requirments:

- Gun caliber: 120mm smoothbore
- Ammo type: APFSDS, HE, HEAT
- Penetration power: At 1500m it needs to penetrate a type 681 composite target angled at 68° (90% pen on average), direct fire range exceding 2000m.
- Muzzle velocity: 1680-1700m/s, velocity decay per 1000m smaller than 80m/s
- Chamber pressure: 431Mpa under normal temperature. High temperature single shot abnormal pressure mustn't exceed 539Mpa
- Accuracy spread at 1000m target: Strive for 0,3mx0,3m at 1500m
- Operating enviroment temperature: -40 to +50°C
- Gun elevation: -8 to +18°
- Recoil force: smaller or equal to 494,3KN
- Recoil distance: smaller than 450mm
- Barrel endurance: No requirement
- Gun weight: Less than 3000kg (including shield)
- Maintenance: Barrel change without dismounting turret

Tested result:

- Gun caliber: 120mm smoothbore
- Ammo type: Only APFSDS tested, HE untested, HEAT development delayed due to funding issues
- Penetration power: Type 681 composite target plate terminal penetration velocity is 1422m/s; 150mm RHA plate angled at 65° terminal penetration velocity is 1441m/s, extrapolated penetration dstance are all above 3000m
- Muzzle velocity: Average muzzle velocity for 3 sets is 1698m/s, velocity decay per 1000m less than 60m/s
- Chamber pressure: 465Mpa under normal temperature. High temperature single shot abnormal pressure 553Mpa
- Accuracy spread at 1000m target: 0,12mx0,27m at 1000m
- Operating enviroment temperature: -40 to +50°C
- Gun elevation: -8 to +18°
- Recoil force: Maximum recoil is 563KN
- Recoil distance: smaller than 410mm
- Barrel endurance: No overall endurance tests conducted, after the trial the chamber wear already exceeded 3mm.
- Gun weight: Less than 3000kg (including shield)
- Maintenance: Specific tank chassis and layout were not taken into consideration

Gr8 Stuff man!
Last edited by Fodder on Wed 6 Jun 2018 23:19, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby another505 » Wed 6 Jun 2018 06:51

keldon wrote:So, something for NK this time. I'll summerize/comment the interesting bits.

original link: http://www.zgjunshi.com/world/tanke/zhu ... 63513.html

The Juche Type-93 mod tank, aka Chonma 216 modernized.

- It has now made several appearances across many parades, and noticable evulotion in equipment can be observed.
- The original project is rumored to be from 93 as the name suggests, but for obvious reasons ca. 10 years was lost, the finalization and production was in 2004. Western intelligence first became aware of this tank's existence in 2002 and much later in 2010 the tank went public.
- Supposedly still a V-46 engine with 780 HP
- The gun looks like a 2A20, but is actually enlarged to 125mm. (I think this claim is plausible)
- Due to the worsened gun endurance, high pressure/velocity sabots are bit tricky to pull off. So HEAT rounds are actually advisible in this case.
- This would also explain why almost everything is glued to the tank, including a remote controlled twin AGL
- The chonma 216 mod could be considered a tank/firesupport specialist hybrid, with main gun firing HEAT/APFSDS, AGL suppression, integrated manpads and finally twin Bulkae-3 ATGM for longrange engagements.
- In terms of armor the whole welded turret chonma have what looks like BDD, but the actual composition is unknow, the same can also be said about the main armor. Due to the geometry and welding, it is possible for some sort of inserts for main armor. All in all it should be much better than cast turret level of protection.


GEE
double AGL on top of a 4 HE main gun and 2 igla-s.... that thing is going to be a beast...
the fagot is useless though
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Thu 7 Jun 2018 20:09

Fodder wrote:I also notice DPRK Mig-29 R-27T are short range A2A missiles instead of BVR missiles ingame. I know it's intentional but I think RD could've had another ASF instead of another short range fighter.


The NK MiG can't carry the R-27T in the first place... It should have been a MRAAM slinger from the beginning and with 2 elite planes it will be the best ASF in coalition. This frees up Su-27SK to be something else.

another505 wrote:GEE
double AGL on top of a 4 HE main gun and 2 igla-s.... that thing is going to be a beast...
the fagot is useless though


Admittedly this is the modernized version of Chonma 216, the original version would come with non-integrated manpads, twin KPVT and Bulsae-3. The gun itself would have remained this enlarged 125mm, HEAT/KE/HE shells like usual, but high velocity sabots are a bit questionable, unless NK doesn't give a shit about barrel failure and can pump those out like cut bread.

btw. The Bulsae-3 itself is rumored to be a heavily upgraded Fagot with laser guidance, i think ATGM performance is likely to be on Konkurs level minimum. technically not so shit and useless.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Steamfunk » Sat 9 Jun 2018 20:06

The gun itself would have remained this enlarged 125mm, HEAT/KE/HE shells like usual, but high velocity sabots are a bit questionable, unless NK doesn't give a shit about barrel failure and can pump those out like cut bread.


Don't know anything about this gun but the 2A46M has a quick change barrel so it isn't as much of a problem. Obviously they have some experience with the 2A20, which was designed for steel cored rounds. The only 115mm monoblock round I know of is the BM-28 which is relatively short (it's also DU so probably restricted for export). If anything the 125mm would probably have a higher EFC rating but I have no idea what ammo they have. None of the Pact armies had anything above BM-15 or 22 which were the old type. Russia exports the BM-42 (tungsten, long penetrator) but I can't see any deal with NK.

Edit: I don't get the grenade launcher(s) at all, unless they've broken with Soviet doctrine and no longer carry HE-frag?

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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby nuke92 » Mon 11 Jun 2018 21:49

Is there any more information about Bulsae 2?
It was sighted in 2014 before the Bulsae 3 tests and appears to have the same type of guidance channels.

edit: also Bulsae 3 is probably in the realm of Kornet which would make sense as an asymetric meassure, these guys don't mess around.
But anyways the older version is more interesting for WG... if Eugen finds it's mojo.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Sun 17 Jun 2018 18:19

nuke92 wrote:Is there any more information about Bulsae 2?
It was sighted in 2014 before the Bulsae 3 tests and appears to have the same type of guidance channels.

edit: also Bulsae 3 is probably in the realm of Kornet which would make sense as an asymetric meassure, these guys don't mess around.
But anyways the older version is more interesting for WG... if Eugen finds it's mojo.


Bulsae 2 should be an upgraded Fagot, Bulsae 3 is anyone's guess, and eugen will be eugen.
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby Mike » Wed 20 Jun 2018 05:56

keldon wrote:
nuke92 wrote:Is there any more information about Bulsae 2?
It was sighted in 2014 before the Bulsae 3 tests and appears to have the same type of guidance channels.

edit: also Bulsae 3 is probably in the realm of Kornet which would make sense as an asymmetric measure, these guys don't mess around.
But anyways the older version is more interesting for WG... if Eugen finds it's mojo.


Bulsae 2 should be an upgraded Fagot


Like the Faktoriya? Eugen chanced all the Fagots to Fagot-Ms and everything I find online points to that being the Faktoriya. I've been saying it for a couple of years at least :P
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Sun 24 Jun 2018 17:23

Mike wrote:Like the Faktoriya? Eugen chanced all the Fagots to Fagot-Ms and everything I find online points to that being the Faktoriya. I've been saying it for a couple of years at least :P


No clue, Factoriya is so horrible ingame that it should be considered a downgrade.
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> Sources for tuning Red Dragons --- Sources for tuning Blue Dragons <
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Re: Fine-tuning NK/China

Postby keldon » Sun 24 Jun 2018 17:34

Nice to read section in first post updated with the new 120mm gun data.

[EUG]MadMat wrote:hands out Nutella


FLX wrote:hands out cookies


So, we are approaching post no. 4000 in this thread. I believe this is now one of the longest threads ever. Certainly didn't expect it to turn out this way back in 2015. Look, i'm not looking for arguements or any antagonism, we all have fair share of those over the years, so for old time sake and those who still stick around. Any words/thoughts you guys wanna share?
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> Sources for tuning Red Dragons --- Sources for tuning Blue Dragons <
亲们!大国梦哦!
小钱钱,真心甜,鼓钱包,放腰间,大国梦,早日圆 。啷个哩个啷♪

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