Light infantry fixes

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CornProducts
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Re: Light infantry fixes

Postby CornProducts » Thu 28 Jan 2016 07:04

chykka wrote:
trineroks wrote:


mm good Catch never even noticed this Tbh.


You would if you ever read my NSWP thread. :(
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GARGEAN
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Re: Light infantry fixes

Postby GARGEAN » Thu 28 Jan 2016 17:17

Loled about Gorno 90 "mediocre against inf". They're not mediocre, they're ac bad as 10 man squad even can be. But in overall not bat points.

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Re: Light infantry fixes

Postby Sigirdiwarth » Thu 28 Jan 2016 17:55

1. Decisions were already made about light infantry as far as I'm aware, they will all be shock and gorno will lose access to every kind of btr.
2. Light riflemen 75 are borderline op at 10pts with m240+atgm, especially when available to the strongest nation in the game.
3. Highlanders' m240 can absolutely not be compared to the diggers' minimi.
4. Thanks for the good laugh about fagots and how gorno 75 should remain regular while clone units don't.
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codextero
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Re: Light infantry fixes

Postby codextero » Thu 28 Jan 2016 18:08

Sigirdiwarth wrote:1. Decisions were already made about light infantry as far as I'm aware, they will all be shock and gorno will lose access to every kind of btr.
2. Light riflemen 75 are borderline op at 10pts with m240+atgm, especially when available to the strongest nation in the game.
3. Highlanders' m240 can absolutely not be compared to the diggers' minimi.
4. Thanks for the good laugh about fagots and how gorno 75 should remain regular while clone units don't.


1. ok, that soulds good, will probably bump LR 75 back to 15 points and make LR90 worth something.
2. M20 is literally the same MG as pansarskytte, dragons are garbage, and lol if you think USA>USSR
3. Highlanders 90 has a CQC minimi
3. USSR already have 10 man shock VDV, another 10 man shock Gorno would be really redundant and give USSR moto/support a 10man shock, which would be pretty broken. To differentiate Gornos I made them stay regular. but cheaper

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Re: Light infantry fixes

Postby Sigirdiwarth » Thu 28 Jan 2016 18:50

codextero wrote:2. M20 is literally the same MG as pansarskytte, dragons are garbage

The pansarskytte mg is somewhat worse than the m240 on every dps charts I've seen so far (not to mention pansar are 15pts) and dragons kill transports from 1.5km away. That's pretty good for 10pts. Furthermore, the whole package is way better than the m60+m72 of the riflemen or any non-mg3 10pts infantry really. I agree however that light riflemen 90 are somewhat overpriced.

codextero wrote:3. Highlanders 90 has a CQC minimi

My bad.

codextero wrote:3. USSR already have 10 man shock VDV, another 10 man shock Gorno would be really redundant and give USSR moto/support a 10man shock, which would be pretty broken. To differentiate Gornos I made them stay regular. but cheaper

I'm pretty sure shock troops with pkm and only available in mi-24 won't redeem ussr support from being utter shit. Moto is pretty bad as well but it might improve with shock gorno and t-72a, even though the former will only come in mi-8. At least the mtv is not entirely worthless.

codextero wrote:and lol if you think USA>USSR

Wanna expand on that?
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Re: Light infantry fixes

Postby hansbroger » Thu 28 Jan 2016 18:55

I'd up Gorno '90 availability by 2 per card (and there's only one card) if you're removing the 80A/90, their current availability as a single card unit is built around how they play with those transports, if they're just coming in the BTR-80 I think their availability needs to be reevaluated and expanded, else replace the BTR-80A/BTR-90 with the BTR-D/Robot/Skhrezhet.... In fact just give those APC's to Gorno '75 too.

Btw, Shock for Gorno's isn't so unreasonable when you consider how much shock and elite infantry a coalition like Common, Eurocorps, BD, Vikings and others can pack into the field....Image "Gornostrelki"

Big fan of making NSWP light rifles shock and letting them move at appropriate speed. Let's also make American light riflemen shock. They are combat hardened and tested elite troops, as so or more than many of the troops who recieve shock or elite training in game. Tbh I can't think of a way this turns out making any US inf deck OP, no matter the spec. Highlander changes look good as well.
Last edited by hansbroger on Thu 28 Jan 2016 19:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Light infantry fixes

Postby Mister Maf » Thu 28 Jan 2016 18:58

Sigirdiwarth wrote:1. Decisions were already made about light infantry as far as I'm aware, they will all be shock and gorno will lose access to every kind of btr.
2. Light riflemen 75 are borderline op at 10pts with m240+atgm, especially when available to the strongest nation in the game.
3. Highlanders' m240 can absolutely not be compared to the diggers' minimi.
4. Thanks for the good laugh about fagots and how gorno 75 should remain regular while clone units don't.

I understand that, historically, Gornostrelki don't have any kind of more advanced training than regular infantry. Unlike Podhale Rifles (evidently), there's no reason for them to be shock trained in the game.

Light Rifles '75 being too good for 10pts I fully agree on, though. They were already great for 15 compared to regular Riflemen. USSR is def stronger than USA either way, though.
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Re: Light infantry fixes

Postby Sigirdiwarth » Thu 28 Jan 2016 19:02

Mister Maf wrote:I understand that, historically, Gornostrelki don't have any kind of more advanced training than regular infantry. Unlike Podhale Rifles (evidently), there's no reason for them to be shock trained in the game.

I thought "gornostrelki" was just the designation of vdv sent to afghanistan after specific training for mountain warfare.
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Re: Light infantry fixes

Postby MenDuck » Thu 28 Jan 2016 19:08

hansbroger wrote:Big fan of making NSWP light rifles shock and letting them move at appropriate speed.

Mister Maf wrote:[...] Unlike Podhale Rifles (evidently), there's no reason for them to be shock trained in the game.

Inb4 MadMat comes barging in, saying that Strzelcy Podhalańscy were just glorified border guards during the Cold War. Unfortunate, but true :(

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Re: Light infantry fixes

Postby hansbroger » Thu 28 Jan 2016 19:27

Mister Maf wrote:
Sigirdiwarth wrote:1. Decisions were already made about light infantry as far as I'm aware, they will all be shock and gorno will lose access to every kind of btr.
2. Light riflemen 75 are borderline op at 10pts with m240+atgm, especially when available to the strongest nation in the game.
3. Highlanders' m240 can absolutely not be compared to the diggers' minimi.
4. Thanks for the good laugh about fagots and how gorno 75 should remain regular while clone units don't.

I understand that, historically, Gornostrelki don't have any kind of more advanced training than regular infantry. Unlike Podhale Rifles (evidently), there's no reason for them to be shock trained in the game.

Light Rifles '75 being too good for 10pts I fully agree on, though. They were already great for 15 compared to regular Riflemen. USSR is def stronger than USA either way, though.


Well historically they're VDV or Spetsnaz, else they're fully mechanized Motostrelki so they're either annoyingly well trained with apcs or normally trained yet annoyingly well equipped with apcs and ifvs..... So it's a catch 22. The only "Helo only Gorno's" are elite troops (SGF/KGB Spetsnaz), there are VDV shock Gorno's with helos and Airborne APC's (see 7th Guards Airborne Division), and then the regularly trained Motostrelki guys who have anything you'd find in the ToE of their era's Motor Rifle Division which for the '90s includes some nice toys like.... BTR-80A. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... lMo-qDKnzQ
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... z2oFaF_Afw
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... fsc_4oGfjQ

The unfortunate thing is that the only "mountain" units in the post WW2 Soviet army were VDV units or Elite KGB border guards. Else they were ad hoc regular army units or Spetsnaz. Even then the mountain units were relatively Ad hoc and were given the assignment for expediency's sake. This makes finding a clear cut dedicated Gorno unit on which to model them tough (they last existed in 1945 I think).

I say shock with the Airborne BTR-D APC line and a token BTR-70/80 as a reflection of the considerable deployment of VDV personnel in mountain combat operations and the kit used by Soviet troops in Afghanistan and Chechnya in those same operations (Both ITF).
Last edited by hansbroger on Thu 28 Jan 2016 19:56, edited 2 times in total.
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