Page 1 of 6

Light infantry fixes

Posted: Thu 28 Jan 2016 04:06
by codextero
The Light Infantry category overall is a complete mess, and probably one of the most inconsistent unit categories in the game.

The discrepancies as listed

- Highlanders 90 have the same cost and equipment as Legion 90, but they are regular while Legion 90 are shock
- Highlanders 75 have the the same cost as Canadian Airborne, Highlanders 75 are regular while Canadian Airborne are shock
- Gornostrelki and Strzelcy Podhalansky are regular, and cost the same as Leichte Shutzen. The 3 units have the same equipment, but Leichte Shutzen are shock.

Then some balance problems

- Light Riflemen are 0/16/12/0/0 when they have no reason to get reduced availability (if you say "Dragon" then you should try to kill something with Dragons, then take a screenshot of the kill for Internet points)
- Light Riflemen 90 are 0/12/8/0/0 when they have no reason to be. They are not good value for 25 points as is.
- Gornostrelki have access to IFV's when no other light riflemen do.

The Fixes

Some people have said that all light infantry should be shock, but Canadian Highlanders are a reserve unit in reality and USA can not have 10 man shock in the infantry tab.

- Highlanders 75 : 20 points > 15 points, this is in line with other Carl Gustav M2 Infantry
- Highlanders 75 : 0/16/12/0/0 > 0/20/16/0/0, since they are basically Pansarskytte that run a bit faster.
- Highlander 90 : 25 points > 20 points. Unique for being 20 point regular, but since ERYX is generally a 5 point upgrade, Highlanders 90 can be considered Diggers 90 + 5 points for ERYX.
- Highlanders 90 : 0/14/10/0/0 > 0/16/12/0/0, in line with "improved" 90's infantry.
- Strzelcy Podhalansky : Regular > Shock. The Podhale Rifles are considered elite units in the Polish Army
- Leichte Shutzen : Speed changed from 25 KPH to 30 KPH, availability changed to 0/0/12/8/0
- Gornostrelki 75 : 20 points > 15 points, stays regular
- Light Riflemen 75 : 0/16/12/0/0 > 0/20/16/0/0
- Light Riflemen 90 : 0/12/8/0/0 > 0/16/12/0/0

Chalk it up as US bias, but I still think Light Riflemen 90 are profoundly underwhelming. While they have 1925 range, 50% accuracy and 15AP for 25 points is bad value. For the price of a Light Rifleman 90 you can buy a Fagot and a 10 point line infantry, and the Fagot is a much more capable ATGM. Very importantly, 15 AP is not enough to one shot a 2AV transport, while 16 is.

- Light Riflemen 90 : 25 points > 20 points.

Gornostrelki 90 is the other trouble unit. The combination of Gornostrelki 90 and BTR-90 is a very prickly one; Gornostrelki 90 have exceptional AT power but mediocre anti-infantry, BTR-90 is exceptional at killing infantry. The perfect coverage makes Gorno 90 in BTR-90 extremely hard to counter. Not to mention Gornostrelki 90 don't take an availability hit from BTR-90, so they are a way for a Soviet player to bring even more BTR-90's.

- BTR-80A and BTR-90 removed from Gornostrelki 90

Without BTR-80A and BTR-90, Gornostrelki 90 now costs more than ERYX shock, but offers little more.

- Gornostrelki 90 : 30 points > 25 points

Re: Light infantry fixes

Posted: Thu 28 Jan 2016 04:37
by CornProducts
All good points, aaaaaaand.

DDR Leichte Scheutzen run at 25 kph, when they should run at 30 (20 base speed, +5 for shock, +5 for "Light Infantry")

Also, I personally love the idea of shock Strzelcy Podhalansky. 8-)

Re: Light infantry fixes

Posted: Thu 28 Jan 2016 04:48
by codextero
CornProducts wrote:All good points, aaaaaaand.

DDR Leichte Scheutzen run at 25 kph, when they should run at 30 (20 base speed, +5 for shock, +5 for "Light Infantry")

Also, I personally love the idea of shock Strzelcy Podhalansky. 8-)


Leichte Shutzen speed increase added to OP.

I would have like all non-highlanders light infantry to be shock, since USA desperately needs a 10 man shock. Shock Gornos would step on VDV's toes thou.

Re: Light infantry fixes

Posted: Thu 28 Jan 2016 05:43
by trineroks
Also don't forget that Liechte Schutzen need a veterancy bump! Currently their availability is still at "Regular" training levels (Trained/Hardened) and not "Shock" levels (Hardened/Veteran).

It really just seems like when Eugen decided to change Liechte Schutzen to "Shock", all they did was give it the "Shock" tag and change its primary weapon stats accordingly - they forgot everything else about it (how light rifles get a +5 movement speed bonus over their unit level and veterancy availability).

Re: Light infantry fixes

Posted: Thu 28 Jan 2016 05:55
by chykka
trineroks wrote:


mm good Catch never even noticed this Tbh.

Re: Light infantry fixes

Posted: Thu 28 Jan 2016 05:59
by Solo
Instead of adjusting Light Riflemen '90 availability, give them 16 AP. Or both but I'd rather more AP.

Then buff Highlanders '90 to 15 man squad.

Re: Light infantry fixes

Posted: Thu 28 Jan 2016 06:46
by DeckCheney
Solo wrote:Instead of adjusting Light Riflemen '90 availability, give them 16 AP. Or both but I'd rather more AP.

Then buff Highlanders '90 to 15 man squad.


I'll give an overall +1, but...

I'm fine with Light Riflemen '90 in regards to Infantry stats. They fill the same role for me as Leichtesch├╝tze in Harassment openings. While I can get behind a price buff for them (extra range on the Dragon vs better Anti-Infantry stats seems a fair trade)- my existing issue remains unsolved- their transport options are absolutely terrible.

By terrible- I mean underperforming. The Humvee issue has been discussed into the ground- and this is one of their problems. The other, and less discussed-is the absolutely useless nature of US helicopter transports.

The 15pts Huey is bad/redundant and I won't go into the details of how I refuse to pay an extra 5pts for an air-taxi that barely gets to the front line faster than an APC. Helo also has shit autonomy.

The Twin Huey is likewise terrible- for an extra 5pts upon your regular Huey- it can tank 1 extra MANPAD when showing up late to deploy on the front line. It can also "Shoot back" with a Minigun- provides it ever moves into position to open fire.

The Blackhawk is the only transport with reasonable stats to support light riflemen in their opening Harassment role; I.E. 6HP, Decent Autonomy and 300km/H speed. This would be fine as an unarmed transport options for 15-20pts; but you pay 25pts for a Blackhawk- supposedly for a pair of Miniguns which cannot fire while moving- let alone require repositioning to fire.

As a counter argument- look at what RedFor can deploy their light Infantry with- Mi-8s which have reasonable speed/Autonomy/HP and are capable of projecting rocket based fire support at double the range of Miniguns. There's also Mi-24Ds which speak for themselves, and the BTR line- while albeit expensive is still a considerable improvement over the Humvee.

Solutions:

Any of the forum based suggestions given to the Humvee.

Buff the Autonomy of all Hueys; 4 and 6 HP variants to 1000km- 5pts price buff for 4hp Hueys.

Reroll the Twin Huey- USA and Canadian versions into a Rocket transport at 25pts- Basically a stat clone of the current Canadian Fire Support Huey in the Helo tab.

Generic fix- Give all Miniguns the [AOE] trait. This will help out Chinooks. Remove the reload from Miniguns.

Split the Twin Miniguns on the Blackhawk into 2 separate Miniguns with individual turrets. Adjust the angles of fire so they can properly engage targets while moving.

Re: Light infantry fixes

Posted: Thu 28 Jan 2016 06:49
by Mike
Inb4 MadMat says it's not fixes.

Re: Light infantry fixes

Posted: Thu 28 Jan 2016 06:55
by codextero
Mike wrote:Inb4 MadMat says it's not fixes.


If Orcbuster would be willing to change the topic to Light Infantry Rebalacing that could work too

But I think it could be considered "fixes" since light infantry are not "bad" as a while, but just hugely inconsistent, like Leichte Shutzen being shock while everything else with a light ATGM isn't.

Re: Light infantry fixes

Posted: Thu 28 Jan 2016 07:00
by Mike
codextero wrote:
Mike wrote:Inb4 MadMat says it's not fixes.


If Orcbuster would be willing to change the topic to Light Infantry Rebalacing that could work too


As soon as I saw "fixes", I saw MadMat's post in my head. :lol: