Crowdsourcing RD tournaments

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varis
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Crowdsourcing RD tournaments

Postby varis » Wed 24 Feb 2016 17:51

It's been a bit quiet on the tournament front, but wouldn't there be both a possibility and need for organized tournaments?

We have:
-updated maps (previously balance has been an issue)
-continued strong player counts for 2 years straight
-many competitive level players around, also many teams around

So, the idea with crowdsourcing is that one guy can't pull it all off (the sheer workload has been an issue previously). Instead, why not throw together ideas and volunteers and see where we get? Here's some of my thoughts, let's see if somebody would be willing to run with them.

My experience of tournaments in WG comes mostly from EE, where I participated in several. A few reccurrent issues were encountered in almost all tournaments, so a few key points should be kept in mind:

1) Controlling drama. There was some in every tournament and I wouldn't expect a tournament without any. Usually it was just the main organizer who had to sort it all out. My solution would be to spread the workload, also rules need to be strictly enforced. Pandex (nearly 4 years ago) was the last organizer who strictly enforced the rules and also the last organizer who didn't get major trouble because of drama between participants, constant appeals to the organizer etc. While enforcement needs to be strict, the rules can be made flexible so the teams are not likely to end up in a situation where they lose face or otherwise tend to react emotionally.

2) Format flexibility. It should be easy to play your matches without having to fear being kicked out of the tournament if you can't play your match this week.

3) Low barrier for entry. There's no tournament if only 2-3 teams show up. But if lots of teams sign up, the tournament gains prestige and it's a huge thing and a lot of players can have tons of fun playing against organized teams of their approximate skill levels.

So what kind of system would be workable in my mind?

Format

3v3 to make forming teams easier, yet to bring most of the benefits of teamplay. I would make it conquest for best gameplay.

Division A and division B. A for teams that regard themselves as highly competitive; B for more casual teams. Existence of a B division should make the whole thing a little less scary and we should get tons more participants. If a team achieves a row of 3 victories or 3 losses, it would be bumped to the appropriate division for the next round.

Ladder format. This is a HUGE point of practicality! The ladder for each division would simply be a ranking based on the team's total score for the season. Any team can challenge a higher ranking team in the division's ladder.

One round per week. +2 points for victory, +1 point for draw, -1 point for a loss. If you challenge a team which declines, you gain +1 point. If you don't play during the week, +0 points for the week.

Team structure and ringers

Each team can register up to 4 regular participants. (Is this flexible enough?) No player can be registered to several teams. In each match the team plays, 2 or 3 players need to be regular members of the team. 1 player can be a ringer (mercenary). Any player who acts as a ringer should be either registered to another team or on the list of ringers, non-registered players are not allowed.

Every week the organizer would run administration, and a team can change its members or new players can register on the list of ringers. A team would be allowed to remove any number of members but only 1 new member can be added each week. Players who have moved to the team during the week are not eligible for play during the round (except if they act as the ringer), therefore there is an up to 1 week delay in major shifts of members.

In principle it's possible to change the actual team lineup completely over the course of 2-3 weeks. However you'd always know whom you'll be playing about 1 week in advance, smurfing as well should not be allowed.

Organization

There would be 1-2 main organizers who run all the administration. They update the ladder, verify match results, administer teams etc. Also they can act as referees to make rulings on the spot.

However any decision by the organizers that gets appealed would automatically be forwarded to a group of independent referees. This should be 3 people, practical in case they need to vote, representing different parts of the community or different points of view and interest. This kind of setup would be critical in removing the stress of drama and pressure by teams from the shoulders of the main organizers. At least 1 of these referees should be a forum administrator.

Thoughts?
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Re: Crowdsourcing RD tournaments

Postby CornProducts » Wed 24 Feb 2016 19:15

Your mention of a division B has caught my eye. I like the idea. I'd be genuinely interested in a tournament that had room for casual peasants such as myself. Not because of fear of getting stomped, but mostly because of another point you brought up. Drama. I'm sure we only see tidbits here on the forums, but every tournament thread has some sort childish behavior. A shame really. You'd like to be able to look up to experienced players as pillars of the community, instead we get whiny kids.
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Re: Crowdsourcing RD tournaments

Postby The W:AB Noob » Wed 24 Feb 2016 19:24

CornProducts wrote:Your mention of a division B has caught my eye. I like the idea. I'd be genuinely interested in a tournament that had room for casual peasants such as myself. Not because of fear of getting stomped, but mostly because of another point you brought up. Drama. I'm sure we only see tidbits here on the forums, but every tournament thread has some sort childish behavior. A shame really. You'd like to be able to look up to experienced players as pillars of the community, instead we get whiny kids.

+1
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Re: Crowdsourcing RD tournaments

Postby varis » Wed 24 Feb 2016 20:17

To be fair, drama is probably one reason why many top-grade players or potential organizers don't want to sign up to upcoming tournaments, as well.

It's funny how easily people pick fights on interwebs forums. Sometimes it was just the tournament structure/rules that was unsuitable to the teams participating. Typically our teams don't have nearly the muster capacity of the competitive teams from big name games, and a weekly 4v4 is really a lot to ask. With a week or two of a slump in a team's activity, this leads to situations like "uh, you're one of the top teams in the tourney but looks like the rules say you are now disqualified from the tournament" and somehow the entitled teams have a problem with this and try to pressure the organizer to be "flexible", and the next team expects even more "flexibility" on whatever issue they don't quite agree with. And when it's just one person pulling off the whole tournament, trying to make all the teams to play and report their matches, and make fair judgements under pressure... yeah, I'm sure they all wondered wth they created the tournament.

If it's set up as a friendly and laid back tourney, and perhaps if there isn't any major competitive bottlenecks where you get disqualified or lose the gold medal in the final, the drama potential is much less.
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Re: Crowdsourcing RD tournaments

Postby triumph » Wed 24 Feb 2016 20:29

Event Type:
Anything that goes longer than a day or maybe 2 is destined to fail. I've got what in theory is a good rule set for 3v3/4v4 single day play events. King of the hill but altered for teams and WG things. I see tourneys or player events as just a way to bring people out and with a KotH using win streaks as victory score this can allow anybody to join in for some fun without the team captain match making meta schedule bullshit that bogs things down. This will let a low tier team can have a good shot at winning the war if they win some games and the higher end teams keep knocking each other off the hill. This is done by allowing a team to save their winstreak and go back into line to play later.

You can have alternates, they just need to be explicitly stated and slotted so players can sort out the issues themselves.Just require the majority of players 2of3, 3of4 to be part of the core team and do not allow alts that work for both teams to play against their own teams. Secondary accounts can be sniffed out by other means and fear of bans for everyone on a team involved with that Gomer Pile.

Spoiler : :
For example we have 4 teams
Aardvark
Chihuahua
Lion
Zebra

And some alts
Alt A
Alt B
Alt C
Alt D

Aardvark Alt A & Alt D
Chihuahua Alt A & Alt C
Lion Alt B & Alt C
Zebra Alt B & alt D

Here is an example:
Team Aardvark cannot play against team Chihuahua using player Alt A because he’s playing for both teams.
Aardvark cannot play against Zebra using Alt D for the previous reason.
The rest should explain itself and allow for people who are able to play in many time zones to have fun with a full day event but not feed victories with ease.


Game state:
Major issue with a big game match will be keeping things from just devolving into mirror matches. Right now the game needs a tweaking patch to fix up some issues like BM spam and the buratino change has resulted in things just being the same with that issue. Confrontation, randomized drops into red or blu, and a unit ban or two might workout. Unit ban is easily enforceable given replays.

Upsides are we actually have enough decent maps for a 3v3 and/or 4v4 map pool with easily 5 to 7 maps for each with maybe a couple of repeats and some odd ones to be cycled in or out.

Issues:
Drama just requires decisiveness. A show must go on attitude that sticks to the rules as much as possible and never settles.

There is an issue that i'm not going to explicitly talk about but it requires a change from the development side to make sure that there isn't a huge amount of fuckery for competitive team vs team play. Dev is aware of this and it shouldn't be too hard to change for the better.

Time zones:
You need an event to run all day and people need to be able to hop in and out. King of the hill allows this to work even though the gods of GMT+5 and GMT-5 may never actually meet. This would however lead nicely into an invite session with bo3 or bo5 matches after a month or two.


Varis feel free to add me on steam. it's not like there will be another rts like homeworld DOK that will be worthy of competitive play so it might as well be RD. :lol:
Last edited by triumph on Wed 24 Feb 2016 21:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Communazi
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Re: Crowdsourcing RD tournaments

Postby Communazi » Wed 24 Feb 2016 21:12

My suggestions would be:

- Crowdfunding, for some sort of incentive
- Randomized teams and winnings distributed based on proportion of wins, not first past the post.

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Re: Crowdsourcing RD tournaments

Postby The Chivalrous One » Wed 24 Feb 2016 22:44

Communazi wrote:My suggestions would be:

- Crowdfunding, for some sort of incentive
- Randomized teams and winnings distributed based on proportion of wins, not first past the post.


No Wargame tourney involving a cash prize has ever really gone smooth. It's an incentive but an incentive that generally causes conflicts between teams. Although many times this is because many of the tourney rule sets are over "complex".
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Re: Crowdsourcing RD tournaments

Postby triumph » Thu 25 Feb 2016 00:47

Prize should be DCS Combined Arms tbh. :lol:
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Re: Crowdsourcing RD tournaments

Postby chykka » Thu 25 Feb 2016 02:53

triumph wrote:Prize should be DCS Combined Arms tbh. :lol:


No currency problems either. Maybe I can throw in a Model Mi-24. :D
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Re: Crowdsourcing RD tournaments

Postby The Chivalrous One » Thu 25 Feb 2016 11:52

triumph wrote:Prize should be DCS Combined Arms tbh. :lol:


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