Proposal: Viable line infantry for CMW, BD, US, RD and USSR

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RoadkillRodger
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Proposal: Viable line infantry for CMW, BD, US, RD and USSR

Postby RoadkillRodger » Sun 10 Apr 2016 03:41

Situation:

Spoiler : :
Any competitive deck (blumech, redmech, blumoto, EC moto, EC, Scandi, NSWP...) must have one or more of: jagers, gavaermenn, or motoshutzen. Highly cost line efficient infantry squads are not an advantage in the current meta, simply the minimum requirement for entry. The USSR used to be an exception, but recent fsv nerfs have eroded its viability.

A good number of otherwise capable coalitions (RD, BD, USSR) do not meet the above requirement.


Goals:

Spoiler : :
1) Increase the variety of competitively viable coalitions

2) Avoid changing the current meta/playstyle. Cheap line squads are are fantastic way to develop map control, and generally carry weak AT. This encourages and rewards complex combined arms play, and as such is desirable to the proliferation of shock squads, which possess significantly better AT capability.

3) Avoid "statclones" where possible. Create similar capabilities among dissimilar units.


Proposal/Rationnale:

Spoiler : :
Give every coalition a cheap line infantry squad with low AT and high efficiency comparable to (but not exceeding) jagers, gavaermenn, and motoshutzen.

This would not introduce any new capabilities into the meta, and would therefore not require players to adapt to a new playstyle. No squads with 16 or greater AP have been buffed. This encourages players to use them as part of a combined force, rather than rely exclusively on a single unit(similar to how motoshutzen '75 currently work). Although the new quads all possess nearly identical HE/cost, each has its own flavor.



    • RD: +5% accuracy to Type 73 lmg


    • BD: Revert KAFV 40/50 price nerf (still shitty infantry, but more effective against the type of low-AT lines likely after the change) Alternatively, give the agl an acc buff to justify the current price

    • USSR: Motostrelki 75 to 5 points, avail to 2 cards of 0/16/12/0/0
      NSWP: Pechota Zmech to 5 points (in line with the motostrelki change)

Each of these new squads would have a nearly identical HE/cost to mg3 line and motoshutzen squads, and all would have 14 or less AP.

EDIT: Motostrelki 75 avail reduced to 2 cards of 16/12
Last edited by RoadkillRodger on Sun 11 Sep 2016 04:09, edited 5 times in total.

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DeckCheney
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Re: Proposal: Viable line infantry for CMW, BD, US, and USSR

Postby DeckCheney » Sun 10 Apr 2016 04:10

No.

All LMGs get identical stats to PKM- THERE, DONE, NO MORE ABSURD SUGGESTIONS.
The USA is #1 exporter of freedom!
All other countries have inferior freedom!

delor
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Re: Proposal: Viable line infantry for CMW, BD, US, and USSR

Postby delor » Sun 10 Apr 2016 05:30

If they really have the same HE/cost as MG3 line infantry, your 5-point infantry will blow MG3 line infantry out of the water in anti-infantry cost effectiveness thanks to extra HP/cost and having more morale bins.

Jagers and Gavermann are already bad enough and should be toned down, without creating new super-Jagers that can be also be spammed at reservist-level pricing.

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Re: Proposal: Viable line infantry for CMW, BD, US, and USSR

Postby Cheesehead » Sun 10 Apr 2016 06:03

Bring back the M60 range buff from ALB and a slight accuracy/ROF buff for the M60 and that solves the US infantry.(Do the same for Czeck line infantry) Nerf the MG3 stabs so it's a little less effective on the move.

Maybe a slight ROF/accuracy buff for PKM's as well if their infantry stay at 10 points?

This might solve some of the problems and at least bring some parity to infantry without having to go to the extreme of standardizing all machine guns.
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RoadkillRodger
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Re: Proposal: Viable line infantry for CMW, BD, US, and USSR

Postby RoadkillRodger » Sun 10 Apr 2016 06:07

Cheesehead wrote:


Veterancy and price are the only way to finesse squad HE output/cost without standardizing mgs. Even with this in mind I wound up leaving the Type 73 and Bren very similar to the mg3, albeit with differing ranges envelopes and stabilizers.

Mg3 line infantry utility has very little to do with their stabilizer value.
delor wrote:


The USSR was the most... unique of the bunch, what did you think of the others?

Spoiler : :
I do think that the change would be workable, and could be balanced by restricting the availability of the base motostrelki (suggesting 16/12). I've edited the OP.

They also have a 14 AP launcher with 10 rpm, which in theory leaves them quite vulnerable to most armor.
Last edited by RoadkillRodger on Sun 10 Apr 2016 21:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Mister Maf
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Re: Proposal: Viable line infantry for CMW, BD, US, RD and USSR

Postby Mister Maf » Sun 10 Apr 2016 09:48

What would this actually do to the Bren? What is the shot interval now? The thing has the lowest close-range HE/s for all LMGs and SAWs by a pretty big margin. Showing the math behind your changes would be ideal, I think. Rifles to shock training (which is pretty much guaranteed to not happen, as is the Motostrelki price change) has been demonstrated already, but I'd like to see more details on the rest.
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Re: Proposal: Viable line infantry for CMW, BD, US, RD and USSR

Postby Razzmann » Sun 10 Apr 2016 12:49

I think you know already why I'm against this.

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Re: Proposal: Viable line infantry for CMW, BD, US, RD and USSR

Postby Demonicjapsel » Sun 10 Apr 2016 13:06

what is it with people wanting to turn every Line inf into either Jager or Mot schutzen, which literally the only ace in the hole DDR has?

the thing that should be fixed is the MG3, either by nerfing DPM or significantly upping ammo usage.

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Re: Proposal: Viable line infantry for CMW, BD, US, RD and USSR

Postby PzAz04Maus » Sun 10 Apr 2016 13:13

Razzmann wrote:I think you know already why I'm against this.

That spreadsheet is inaccurate?

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Re: Proposal: Viable line infantry for CMW, BD, US, RD and USSR

Postby Razzmann » Sun 10 Apr 2016 13:41

PzAz04Maus wrote:
Razzmann wrote:I think you know already why I'm against this.

That spreadsheet is inaccurate?

That's just a minor part.
Mainly why I don't want new Jäger type infantry.

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