Israeli nation for Wargame

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nuke92
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Re: Israeli nation for Wargame

Postby nuke92 » Fri 17 Jun 2016 10:27

What's so special about an Israel deck? I mean it would be cool no offense... but we would get pretty much an american 70% copy and paste and rename deck, with unique infantry and infantry weapons and the Merkavas, some upgraded blue and red units and thats about it. The cool stuff we see today wasn't around till the late 90s...

At this point in time we should be voting for REDFOR anyways.
I voted for Yugoslavia for being the only nation which brings a whole list of new units stretching from Infantry, Tanks, MLRs, Infantry Carriers and Firesupport/AT vehicles to ground attack planes... everything.
With prototypes that were original yugo designs... you can count on a superheavy too.
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codextero
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Re: Israeli nation for Wargame

Postby codextero » Fri 17 Jun 2016 21:46

nuke92 wrote:What's so special about an Israel deck? I mean it would be cool no offense... but we would get pretty much an american 70% copy and paste and rename deck, with unique infantry and infantry weapons and the Merkavas, some upgraded blue and red units and thats about it. The cool stuff we see today wasn't around till the late 90s...

At this point in time we should be voting for REDFOR anyways.
I voted for Yugoslavia for being the only nation which brings a whole list of new units stretching from Infantry, Tanks, MLRs, Infantry Carriers and Firesupport/AT vehicles to ground attack planes... everything.
With prototypes that were original yugo designs... you can count on a superheavy too.


There's a ton of stuff that Israel has that nobody else does, more than any other non-implemented nation.

- Spike NLOS- fiber guided very long range ATGM
- Nimrod - a cruise missile -like ATGM. Very long range, the launch vehicle launched the missile, it flies over to the target destination, and terminal targeting is handed by another unit.
- Kilshon - Ground launched Shrike
- Keres - Ground launched AGM-78 Standard
- LAHAT - bluefor gun ATGM
- Magach 7 - advanced M60 variant
- Pereh - armored carrier for Spike NLOS
- 160mm mortars
- M51 Super Sherman
- Heavy APC converted from tanks (7-10 frontal armor)

The IAF could definitely be one of the top tier air forces, they have a large arsenal and very successful operational history.

Israel is right on the borderline of being viable standalone. All of their stuff is heavily armored but relatively slow. The most historically accurate coalition partner is the US, but that might cause balance problems.

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Killertomato
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Re: Israeli nation for Wargame

Postby Killertomato » Fri 17 Jun 2016 23:19

Israel is right on the borderline of being viable standalone. All of their stuff is heavily armored but relatively slow. The most historically accurate coalition partner is the US, but that might cause balance problems.


I think Israel IS viable standalone. What are they missing? All I can think of is interceptors with long-range missiles. They're also light on heavies since the only 120mm tanks possible are the Merkava Mk.3 and Mk.3 BAZ and of course they have no IFV.

Hell, they're more or less equivalent to Blue Dragons all by themselves.
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

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Re: Israeli nation for Wargame

Postby codextero » Sat 18 Jun 2016 00:33

Killertomato wrote:
Israel is right on the borderline of being viable standalone. All of their stuff is heavily armored but relatively slow. The most historically accurate coalition partner is the US, but that might cause balance problems.


I think Israel IS viable standalone. What are they missing? All I can think of is interceptors with long-range missiles. They're also light on heavies since the only 120mm tanks possible are the Merkava Mk.3 and Mk.3 BAZ and of course they have no IFV.

Hell, they're more or less equivalent to Blue Dragons all by themselves.


Israeli viability would come down to the infantry section.

If the Negev is powerfully modeled/plentiful, or Israel has "mech shock" I think it will work well as a standalone. If not, then it becomes a USA lite similar to BD.

Israel's moto game is very poor. Almost everything they have is tracked.

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Tiera
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Re: Israeli nation for Wargame

Postby Tiera » Sat 18 Jun 2016 00:38

codextero wrote:Israel's moto game is very poor. Almost everything they have is tracked.


Which is not necessarily a bad thing in a case where tracked and motorized vehicles get their critical rates swapped around at some point, as it has been often suggested.
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Re: Israeli nation for Wargame

Postby codextero » Sat 18 Jun 2016 01:39

Tiera wrote:
codextero wrote:Israel's moto game is very poor. Almost everything they have is tracked.


Which is not necessarily a bad thing in a case where tracked and motorized vehicles get their critical rates swapped around at some point, as it has been often suggested.


I mean, Israel standalone is going to have problems because they can't take ground in the game opening.

An Israeli deck can hold ground very well, but that means nothing if they can't get there. In destruction they have an income disadvantage, and in conquest they have to push into the enemy, which is something the deck might have trouble with, since even their tracked vehicles are on the slow side.

If the game goes AH, you can coalition Israel with France. de Gaulle imposed and arms embargo, but Mitterrand was friendly with Israel and both countries worked together in the 82 war in Lebanon.

This raises another point, that the US and USSR are both too powerful to coalition with minors but their involvement was very important for the military plan of many minors. IMO the USMC and VDV should be spun off into their own minors, then the Superpowers are modeled as their default coalitions (USMC + US army, VDV + Soviet Army), and the split armed forces can be coalitioned to other minors without ruining balance, ex. US Army + Bundeswehr (CENTAG), US Marines + Israel, Soviet Army + Finland, VDV + North Korea, etc.

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Re: Israeli nation for Wargame

Postby Iris » Sat 18 Jun 2016 07:51

Israel Defense Forces

Logistics
  • M325 Command Car New Model
  • M462 Rhino PC New Model
  • Magach 5 PC New Model
  • Merkava Mk1 PC New Model
  • Bell 206 PC Skin
  • CH-53 Cargo Skin
  • M35 Cargo Skin
  • HEMMT Skin
  • M548 Alfa New Model
Support
  • Ro'em New Model
  • M109A2 Rochev Skin
  • Sholef New Model
  • MAR-240 New Model
  • Menatetz Skin
  • M3 Mk. C New Model
  • Keshet Skin
  • Makmat New Model
  • Hovet Skin
  • Machbet New Model
  • M727 HAWK Skin
  • M727 I-HAWK Skin
  • Keres New Model
  • Kilshon New Model
  • MIM-104 Patriot "Yahalom" Skin
  • M48A1 and M48A3 Skin
  • M752 Lance Skin
Tanks
  • AMX-13-90 Skin
  • M-51 Isherman New Model
  • Sho't Kal Gimel New Model
  • Tiran-3 Skin
  • Tiran-6 New Model
  • Tiran-5Sh New Model
  • Magach 3 New Model
  • Magach 5 BLAZER New Model
  • Magach 6 Gimel New Model
  • Magach 6B Gal Batash New Model
  • Magach 7C New Model
  • Merkava Mk I New Model
  • Merkava Mk II Skin
  • Merkava Mk II B New Model
  • Merkava Mk III New Model
  • Merkava Mk III Baz Skin
Recon
  • 206B Saifan Skin
  • HMMWV Skin
  • Storm New Model
  • Tiran 2 Skin
Vehicles
  • M113 HVMS New Model
  • Pereh New Model
  • M113 M40 Skin
  • M113 TOW Skin
  • M113 Tamuz New Model
  • Storm M40 New Model
  • Storm TOW New Model
  • Storm MAPATS New Model
  • M462 New Model
  • M462 Rhino New Model
  • M113 Bardehlas Skin
  • M113 Zelda 2 New Model
  • Achzarit Mk1 New Model
  • Nakpadon New Model
Helicopters
  • AH-1 Tzefa Skin
  • AH-64A Peten Skin
  • UH-60 Yanshuf Skin
  • AS565SA Atalef Skin
  • Bell 212 Skin

Planes
  • Mirage IIIC Skin
  • Nesher S Skin
  • Kfir C.2 New Model
  • Kfir C.7 Skin
  • F-4E Skin
  • F-4 Kurnas 2000 Skin
  • F-15A Baz Skin
  • F-15C Baz Skin
  • F-15I Ra'am New Model
  • F-16A Netz Skin
  • F-16C Barak Skin
  • A-4H Ayit Skin
  • A-4N Ayit Skin


Don't let anybody tell you that Israel doesn't bring something new to your war-table.

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Eukie
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Re: Israeli nation for Wargame

Postby Eukie » Sat 18 Jun 2016 22:21

So, people-who-want-the-IDF-in-Wargame, what kind of Special Forces do you want the IDF to be able to deploy? Keep in mind, no extant Nation has more than three types of special forces. Options include:

Personally, I lean towards Sayaret Maglan in a Scud-hunting + sniper setup (CAR-15, Spike, Galatz), Shayetet 13 in an SBS setup (Silenced Uzi + B-300 + FN Minimi), and Sayeret Mat’kal in a regular setup (CAR-15, B-300, FN Minimi). However, these are hardly the only possible setups, nor the only SF units the IDF has, which creates more options. Some have called for the Sayeret T’zanchanim as 2-man sniper-recon. I've seen the Mat'kal suggested as a SAS-analogue. I've seen the Shayetet suggested as sniper-recon; there's lots to choose from here, and there's nothing preventing novel ideas!

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Re: Israeli nation for Wargame

Postby GookaDuke » Sun 19 Jun 2016 00:15

Eukie wrote:So, people-who-want-the-IDF-in-Wargame, what kind of Special Forces do you want the IDF to be able to deploy? Keep in mind, no extant Nation has more than three types of special forces. Options include:

Personally, I lean towards Sayaret Maglan in a Scud-hunting + sniper setup (CAR-15, Spike, Galatz), Shayetet 13 in an SBS setup (Silenced Uzi + B-300 + FN Minimi), and Sayeret Mat’kal in a regular setup (CAR-15, B-300, FN Minimi). However, these are hardly the only possible setups, nor the only SF units the IDF has, which creates more options. Some have called for the Sayeret T’zanchanim as 2-man sniper-recon. I've seen the Mat'kal suggested as a SAS-analogue. I've seen the Shayetet suggested as sniper-recon; there's lots to choose from here, and there's nothing preventing novel ideas!


Any so long as they have the krav maga eye gauge! Ya know, for flavor

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Re: Israeli nation for Wargame

Postby Sullian » Sun 19 Jun 2016 16:51

Another update is up ! As usual, the changes are summed up in the OP.

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