Why is the Roland 3 still 4 per card?

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Markenzwieback
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Re: Why is the Roland 3 still 4 per card?

Postby Markenzwieback » Sun 22 May 2016 11:48

urogard wrote:
Markenzwieback wrote:
Bougnas wrote:6 avail for M48A3 and Roland 3?

Yes please. This should have happened a long time ago.

The entire chap line needs to go up by +2
Crotale has avail of 6 and it's a hell of a lot better in other aspects also (mobility, survival) than the M48A3 which is only 4

With rolands it gets trickier
Roland 3 definitely deserves +1 availability, not sure if +2
OSA AKM (6) vs roland 3 (4) have the same ranges but roland has 65% accuracy, osa has only 55% (osa has more mobility but roland has armor so let's say they're even)
Roland can only shoot 2 missiles before reloading but when you shoot at planes, you don't really need more anyway

Roland 2 (6) is the same story vs OSA-AK (8), 65% acc vs 50% acc, +1 is most definitely warranted, +2 maybe not so much

Roland 1 is already at 8 availability, compared to that Strela-10M has worse stats, availability of 6 and costs more despite roland having a 2.8 km range on helos unlike strela (2 shots before reload vs 4 shots before reload is more of an issue but I think that should affect price, roland is already cheaper, but should not make availability lower for the strela)

So seriously, on what grounds does crotale with 3.3km deserve the same availability as strela-10m
Either crotale needs to receive -1, or strela-10M +2

On the OSA-AKM vs. Roland 3 comparison: Mobility, amphibious capabilities and missile firing speed vs. accuracy, armor and missile quantity is a fair trade-off in my opinion. So an increase to OSA levels would be alright for the Roland 3s in my opinion. Also, HE power is not to forget. The OSA can one-shot planes and (most) NATO helicopters, while the Roland is always needing two hits on a plane and struggles against Hinds quite a bit.

On the Strela-10M vs. Crotale availability: Agreed. The Strela-10M should get a good buff in availability. We might actually see it more often in that case.
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Re: Why is the Roland 3 still 4 per card?

Postby urogard » Sun 22 May 2016 11:57

Markenzwieback wrote:On the OSA-AKM vs. Roland 3 comparison: Mobility, amphibious capabilities and missile firing speed vs. accuracy, armor and missile quantity is a fair trade-off in my opinion. So an increase to OSA levels would be alright for the Roland 3s in my opinion. Also, HE power is not to forget. The OSA can one-shot planes and (most) NATO helicopters, while the Roland is always needing two hits on a plane and struggles against Hinds quite a bit.

Forgot about HE difference, yes good points (sidenote, do you know crit formula how much extra damage is possible? i know it's not 2x anymore)

Well it most certainly needs an avail buff, but i'm still not sure if +2 is deserved (at least on roland 3)
Tracked rapier FSA has 6 availability, crap movement, no top/back armor (dies to arty fast), only 5 HE (Roland has 6, OSA has 7), 350m more anti plane range but terrible anti helo range and 60% acc (roland has 65%, OSA has 55%)

My point is, the moment Roland 3 gets 6 availability, Tracked rapier will immediately need a buff also. If however roland has 5 availability, this won't seem like an issue.

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Re: Why is the Roland 3 still 4 per card?

Postby Razzmann » Sun 22 May 2016 11:58

I don't know whether it is a straight +3 damage for HE weapons or a 1.5 modifier, but I know that a Roland crit does 9 damage and a OSA can one shot planes.

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Re: Why is the Roland 3 still 4 per card?

Postby urogard » Sun 22 May 2016 12:06

Razzmann wrote:I don't know whether it is a straight +3 damage for HE weapons or a 1.5 modifier, but I know that a Roland crit does 9 damage and a OSA can one shot planes.

That I know, since TOR and Tung can one shot, just wondering about the actual values

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Re: Why is the Roland 3 still 4 per card?

Postby chykka » Sun 22 May 2016 12:08

I've seen otomatic do 3 damage in one shot that happened to hit first.
Not sure if it was a critical.
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Re: Why is the Roland 3 still 4 per card?

Postby Bougnas » Sun 22 May 2016 12:12

IMO we need AA systems to be more available, not less. I'd definitely support an avail buff for both Chapparals and strela-10M by +2, and Roland by at least 1 (+2 if Rapier FSA gets an avail buff to 6 like the Roland.)

IIRC Otomatic has 3HE.
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Re: Why is the Roland 3 still 4 per card?

Postby urogard » Sun 22 May 2016 12:24

Bougnas wrote:IMO we need AA systems to be more available, not less. I'd definitely support an avail buff for both Chapparals and strela-10M by +2, and Roland by at least 1 (+2 if Rapier FSA gets an avail buff to 6 like the Roland.)

IIRC Otomatic has 3HE.

Rapier FSA has already 6, but it's subpar to a Roland 3 and it wouldn't be fair if they both shared the same availability, I already compared them in enough detail a few posts up to show you what I mean

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Re: Why is the Roland 3 still 4 per card?

Postby Bougnas » Sun 22 May 2016 12:41

urogard wrote:
Bougnas wrote:IMO we need AA systems to be more available, not less. I'd definitely support an avail buff for both Chapparals and strela-10M by +2, and Roland by at least 1 (+2 if Rapier FSA gets an avail buff to 6 like the Roland.)

IIRC Otomatic has 3HE.

Rapier FSA has already 6, but it's subpar to a Roland 3 and it wouldn't be fair if they both shared the same availability, I already compared them in enough detail a few posts up to show you what I mean


Then 5 for roland will be enough (7-8 FSA would be a bit too much, wouldn't it?)
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Re: Why is the Roland 3 still 4 per card?

Postby Markenzwieback » Sun 22 May 2016 12:46

An availability of 0/5/4/0/0 would be the perfect middle ground between systems like the Buk M1 / Tor and the OSA-AKM / Tracked Rapier FSA.
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Re: Why is the Roland 3 still 4 per card?

Postby FoxZz » Sun 22 May 2016 13:06

The chap line needs indeed to get +2 avail and 10HP, it doesn't make sense right now.

The Crotales are fine, with only 4 ammo they are very supply and micro heavy, which balances them out.

Roland 1 are fine too.

Roland 3 availability should go up to 6 in national decks and 5 in coalition.

And yes being able to shoot only 2 missiles is a huge shortcoming, it means that if you miss once, the plane can come back without any worries, the Roland also cannot reengage when other planes are coming. Overall, I think the osa system is superior to the Roland, and it get 1 more HE and can one shot planes.

Moreover, the reload time of the Roland ingame is too long, I thinkit should be shortened by several seconds (taking into account that the game time goes faster than the real time). Look how fast the system reloads IRL :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iRJtCZ3ERo#t=2m20s
Last edited by FoxZz on Sun 22 May 2016 15:04, edited 1 time in total.

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