2,000+ people online and I can't find a game - the State of Wargame: Red Lobbysim

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raventhefuhrer
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Re: 2,000+ people online and I can't find a game - the State of Wargame: Red Lobbysim

Postby raventhefuhrer » Wed 25 May 2016 05:09

Rabidnid wrote:People play the games they want to play. If you don't want to play their games host your own.


I mean, it feels nice and righteous to say that, but it's not a very thoughtful position.

So because people play the games they want to play, does that mean that anything goes? What if people want to play games with 100 starting points per player? What if they want to play games with 10,000 starting points per player? This position is problematic because how is a new player supposed to know what optimal, sane settings are for lobbies? New players will join matches with sub-optimal settings and conclude 'Well this game is retarded, why should I waste my time with this?'

Furthermore, what's the point of Eugen trying to balance the game if it's just going to be anything goes? Adjusting the cost of tanks is meaningless if everyone is hosting 'very high income' games with tons of extra starting points. How can you balance availability if everyone is playing 10v10s, where of course people leave all the time and thereby give availability buffs to their allies?

The fact of the matter is you cannot have this current state of anarchy, where game settings amount to 'if it feels good, do it'. Because this state makes it nearly impossible to have a cogent, consistent balance for a competitive multiplayer game. It's just not good for long-term health of the game.
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Re: 2,000+ people online and I can't find a game - the State of Wargame: Red Lobbysim

Postby throwaway » Wed 25 May 2016 06:06

New players will land in 10v10 lobbies, which are the perfect place to start. So no problem there.

You're overthinking it. It's been mentioned plenty of times that wargame 4 should have a more prominent ranked/matchmade mode. Hopefully Eugen has heard. Until then, make your own lobby.

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Re: 2,000+ people online and I can't find a game - the State of Wargame: Red Lobbysim

Postby F-22 » Wed 25 May 2016 06:29

throwaway wrote:New players will land in 10v10 lobbies, which are the perfect place to start. So no problem there.

You're overthinking it. It's been mentioned plenty of times that wargame 4 should have a more prominent ranked/matchmade mode. Hopefully Eugen has heard. Until then, make your own lobby.


Making my own lobby is pointless if it takes 45 minutes to get that perfect game that is to my preferences, with the right teammates and the right enemies. You're just going to go do something else.

People don't come home from work or school and go "You know what, today I want to navigate the crappy lobby system in Wargame Red Dragon." Heck nah, i'm going to go play a game where I can actually play in under 10 minutes. This game encourages people to actively not play it whether it be for the noob or the veteran alike.

This is the number 1 issue with this game, over balance and bug fixes yet nothing appears to being done about it so far. So until a year or two from now when (or if) the new Wargame comes out I get to play and dump more hours into Wargame Lobby Simulator more than Wargame: Red Dragon.

Great.

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Re: 2,000+ people online and I can't find a game - the State of Wargame: Red Lobbysim

Postby Rabidnid » Wed 25 May 2016 06:37

raventhefuhrer wrote:The fact of the matter is you cannot have this current state of anarchy, where game settings amount to 'if it feels good, do it'. Because this state makes it nearly impossible to have a cogent, consistent balance for a competitive multiplayer game. It's just not good for long-term health of the game.


People start in 10v10s, and occasionally move on to smaller games. There are however a lot of people who play nothing but 10v10 and have played 2,000 games.

The idea that the maps are correctly sized for the number of players, and that a 1,000 point conquest game is the definitive game form, are not views held by pretty much the whole community.

My feeling is that the maps from 1v1 to 4v4 are better off with an extra player because randoms will not be sufficiently coordinated to cover it properly. A team on the other hand, especially with TS, will be able to manage it fine.

10v10s also breed a passion for support decks and camping since they are nearly all destruction games. When I coach someone i use an opposing deck with just a single card of heli CVs as the opposition, and then use that live map to teach players the basic movement, queuing orders, the effect and accuracy of weapons, how much supply things need (the PRAM needs 4,200 supply so never let it near your fob or a supply truck, it's cheaper to buy new ones).

With the basic mechanics they can then go off and learn basic tactics while hosting noob games.

Just hosting a game with no US/USSR, no mixed and themes clears out all of the fuckknucles anyway, so you are usually going to be in for a good game.
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Re: 2,000+ people online and I can't find a game - the State of Wargame: Red Lobbysim

Postby Shrike » Wed 25 May 2016 06:39

Chat game is the best source of F-35 rants, right wing trolling, and tooth decay. Could be worse, I once knew a game that had a pretty active forum, but most of users didn't really play the game.

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Re: 2,000+ people online and I can't find a game - the State of Wargame: Red Lobbysim

Postby Bullfrog » Wed 25 May 2016 06:41

"You know what, today I want to navigate the crappy lobby system in Wargame Red Dragon." Heck nah, i'm going to go play a game where I can actually play in under 10 minutes.


Pretty much the reason why games like Rainbow Six Siege and Rocket League knocked Wargames off of my go to list for games.

They're not only good games, it's also user friendly, it's easy to get good games reliably. It's fast, easy fun. People here have to wait 30 mins to an hour and then wonder why there are so many AFK host and players in the game, because they tab out and forgot the game was even running.

Wargames is a great game, but there are plenty of great games now a days and most of them get rid of the down time and hassle.
Last edited by Bullfrog on Wed 25 May 2016 06:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2,000+ people online and I can't find a game - the State of Wargame: Red Lobbysim

Postby F-22 » Wed 25 May 2016 06:41

Shrike wrote:Chat game is the best source of F-35 rants, right wing trolling, and tooth decay. Could be worse, I once knew a game that had a pretty active forum, but most of users didn't really play the game.


Don't forget IRONREIGN

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Re: 2,000+ people online and I can't find a game - the State of Wargame: Red Lobbysim

Postby Killertomato » Wed 25 May 2016 06:42

Just hosting a game with no US/USSR, no mixed and themes clears out all of the fuckknucles anyway, so you are usually going to be in for a good game.


This is true, but the problem is

Making my own lobby is pointless if it takes 45 minutes to get that perfect game that is to my preferences, with the right teammates and the right enemies. You're just going to go do something else.


People run ASAP to tactical or 20000000000000000000 point 10v10s. I want to play something, I have to play those because I have a job and classes but I still want to run the French over in my T-80U.
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

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Re: 2,000+ people online and I can't find a game - the State of Wargame: Red Lobbysim

Postby Rabidnid » Wed 25 May 2016 06:50

Killertomato wrote:
Just hosting a game with no US/USSR, no mixed and themes clears out all of the fuckknucles anyway, so you are usually going to be in for a good game.


This is true, but the problem is



Nope, lobby take about 10 to 15 min even with kicking 10 people who didn't understand what no US/USSR means. Only a very few people have the nerve to host a game, and there are a lot of people who just want to run their obscure minor factions deck without getting stomped by some team running blue mixed mech decks.
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Re: 2,000+ people online and I can't find a game - the State of Wargame: Red Lobbysim

Postby Killertomato » Wed 25 May 2016 06:54

Nope, lobby take about 10 to 15 min even with kicking 10 people who didn't understand what no US/USSR means. Only a very few people have the nerve to host a game, and there are a lot of people who just want to run their obscure minor factions deck without getting stomped by some team running blue mixed mech decks.


I have to say I'm jealous, then... or you took my players? Last time I hosted a 4v4 I was stuck at 3 BLUFOR 1 REDFOR for 45 minutes until I got tired of it.
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

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