[Non-included nation] South Africa (and possibly others in region)

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Eukie
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Re: [Non-included nation] South Africa (and possibly others in region)

Postby Eukie » Wed 3 May 2017 18:47

FrangibleCover wrote:Okay, how about this? The prototype tag in Wargame doesn't actually indicate prototypes, it indicates things that Eugen don't want in mixed decks (Reservists, for example). If we prototype the Casspirs and Ratels then they can be in the 'mechanized' and 'armoured' specialisation for South Africa and the Buffels can cover the Motorised specialisation. This also neatly fixes the problem of it being pointless to play Unspec SA when Motorised exists because now you're losing out on all of the good units, just as Motorised should ;).


That works, except it ruins my dreams of using Ratels in BLUFOR decks. ;)

(I'd say the Casspirs should stay unprototyped in Motorized, because they were more of a transport for motorized and light infantry troops. The ones in mechanized infantry battalions were staff cars.)

FrangibleCover wrote:That really means it should be REC :?. Considering the description of the Rooikat's FCS that means that SA could justify three or four cards of stealthy, high-AP, reasonably armoured wheeled recon vehicles.

For my money, stick it in the tank tab. The recon tab is going to be too crowded, the vehicle tab is going to be too empty, in the tank tab you'll have to think about whether you want to take it.


TNK makes more sense, and is where I've currently put it, as it was developed primarily to fight T-55s. The reason it's doctrinally a recon vehicle is because that's what all South African armoured cars with big anti-tank guns were; recon vehicles. Which certainly makes Motorized decks happy, because they get to bask in the glory of Rooikat 76s and 105s! ^_^

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Re: [Non-included nation] South Africa (and possibly others in region)

Postby FrangibleCover » Wed 3 May 2017 20:14

Eukie wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:Okay, how about this? The prototype tag in Wargame doesn't actually indicate prototypes, it indicates things that Eugen don't want in mixed decks (Reservists, for example). If we prototype the Casspirs and Ratels then they can be in the 'mechanized' and 'armoured' specialisation for South Africa and the Buffels can cover the Motorised specialisation. This also neatly fixes the problem of it being pointless to play Unspec SA when Motorised exists because now you're losing out on all of the good units, just as Motorised should ;).

That works, except it ruins my dreams of using Ratels in BLUFOR decks. ;)

(I'd say the Casspirs should stay unprototyped in Motorized, because they were more of a transport for motorized and light infantry troops. The ones in mechanized infantry battalions were staff cars.)

Fair enough on the Casspirs, the Buffel is pretty crap as your only transport anyway. I see you're got the Casspir CV so that can go in any deck. I think it would be safe enough to allow some of the more innocuous SIBMAS( ;) ) variants like the Ratel CV and the Ratel 60 into mixed mech, if that would unruin your dreams a little. You're still going to get the Rooikat 76 and a load of the other weird wheeled stuff in mixed anyway.
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Re: [Non-included nation] South Africa (and possibly others in region)

Postby Eukie » Wed 3 May 2017 22:29

Found a reference to the Strela-2 being used by the SADF in November 1980, which means:

a) Rekiez moved from A-CAT to C-CAT,
b) The SADF Strela-2 team moved from B-CAT to C-CAT,
c) The stupid "Attack Diver" struck from the list of units.

My proposal for SADF Elite units is:
C-CAT: Rekiez (INF): R4 + LRAC F1 + Strela-2, in essence FJB-40 that has better AT but worse AA.
B-CAT: Para Pathfinders (REC): R4 + Y2 + FN MAG, Navy SEAL with MAG instead of Stoner 63
A-CAT: Rekiez 90 (INF): R5 + APILAS + Igla-1E, a midpoint between SAS and Erikoisrajääkäri
Last edited by Eukie on Sun 14 May 2017 19:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Non-included nation] South Africa (and possibly others in region)

Postby FrangibleCover » Sun 14 May 2017 18:13

Eukie wrote:61 Mechanized Battalion Group
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More here if you can read Russian or use Google Translate

Old post and that, but to me this indicates that the Ratel 60 should perhaps be a specialist transport for Assault Pioneers and possibly Tiffies, like the M113 Minigun and the BTR-T. That's a little unfortunate for flavour purposes but it does at least mean that SA won't get 20-odd mortar transports unless you're cheesing hard.
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Re: [Non-included nation] South Africa (and possibly others in region)

Postby Eukie » Sun 14 May 2017 19:19

FrangibleCover wrote:Old post and that, but to me this indicates that the Ratel 60 should perhaps be a specialist transport for Assault Pioneers and possibly Tiffies, like the M113 Minigun and the BTR-T. That's a little unfortunate for flavour purposes but it does at least mean that SA won't get 20-odd mortar transports unless you're cheesing hard.


Looking over it, you are sadly probably right.

At least that means less fighting with Eugen to give mortar-transports?

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Re: [Non-included nation] South Africa (and possibly others in region)

Postby FrangibleCover » Sun 14 May 2017 20:34

Eukie wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:Old post and that, but to me this indicates that the Ratel 60 should perhaps be a specialist transport for Assault Pioneers and possibly Tiffies, like the M113 Minigun and the BTR-T. That's a little unfortunate for flavour purposes but it does at least mean that SA won't get 20-odd mortar transports unless you're cheesing hard.

Looking over it, you are sadly probably right.

At least that means less fighting with Eugen to give mortar-transports?

Honestly, having had a bit of a ponder, I think it's a good thing overall. I can't imagine that Eugen would have added the BTR-T if it came with all Soviet mechanised infantry units but it's fine if it only comes with Sapery '85. I don't think it'll be too hard to persuade MadMat on South African flavour anyway, isn't he pretty keen on motorised units?

The other thing is that that'll be a handy data summary for part of the South African unit in Steel Division: Fulda '89: Moduler DLC.
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Re: [Non-included nation] South Africa (and possibly others in region)

Postby Eukie » Sun 14 May 2017 21:02

FrangibleCover wrote:The other thing is that that'll be a handy data summary for part of the South African unit in Steel Division: Fulda '89: Moduler DLC.


I barely dare dream of such a thing~

61 Mech Bn. correctly modelled with RPG-7 and Milkor MGL. <3

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Re: [Non-included nation] South Africa (and possibly others in region)

Postby FrangibleCover » Sun 14 May 2017 21:18

That's something I have been meaning to ask actually. Why was it Moduler instead of Modular?
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Re: [Non-included nation] South Africa (and possibly others in region)

Postby Eukie » Sun 14 May 2017 21:38

FrangibleCover wrote:That's something I have been meaning to ask actually. Why was it Moduler instead of Modular?


There's no official explanation that I know of. One theory goes that it's actually a spelling error. It's a very simple mistake to make because "modular" in Afrikaans is spelled "modulêr", so someone typing "modular" might easily write it down as "moduler". Another option is that it's simply the Afrikaans "modulêr" without the circumflex, which is easy to write on a typewriter. The SADF used both English and Afrikaans to name operations, after all.

(I have an alternate theory that it's not supposed to be a proper word, but is instead the English noun "module" with "-er" on the end, to match the Cuito Cuanavale operation names of Hooper and Packer - which are also nouns with "-er" tacked on that just happen to also be English nouns. That is, the operations are "Module", "Hoop", and "Pack", with "-er" tacked on for some unknown reason. Moduler, Hooper, and Packer are the only SADF operations [listed on Wikipedia] that end in '-er', which is surprising since SADF operation names were typical picked at random.)

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Re: [Non-included nation] South Africa (and possibly others in region)

Postby Steyntjie28 » Thu 1 Apr 2021 20:23

Our dreams are coming true :D :D :D :D

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