[Non-included nation] PORTUGAL

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Mike
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Re: [Non-included nation] PORTUGAL

Postby Mike » Mon 20 Jun 2016 19:00

We need the prop plane rocket truck. :lol:
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Re: [Non-included nation] PORTUGAL

Postby Broth3r » Tue 21 Jun 2016 02:26

Lord Helmchen wrote:Actually that could make a quite cheap DLC since it's only mostly reskins. Some nice units but not that much "flavour". :lol:

I would love to see them opening up to such "smaller" packs, though some issues arise: voice acting is a fixed cost, for example.

And... well, true, it wouldn't be the most flavor-ish of nations, but between Shock MILANs, APCs with quad rocket launchers, well maintained ancient equipment and my personal favorite, the FAV Mk. 2 (seriously, that thing is amazing!), we do offer a bit of spice :)

Lord Helmchen wrote:Also lel at adopting the M5A1 Stuart, a tank that's been outdated in WW2 already, in 1957... :lol:

The Stuart was a whim of a few military chiefs, who wanted to build up divisions to deploy to the heart of Europe in case of conflict, and the US was happy to oblige in giving them some scrap for them to play with. To put it in perspective, the entire Portuguese Army could theoretically assemble a single division at best at the Cold War's height, and is currently comprised of three brigades.

Unsurprisingly, the plan never came to pass, and most Stuarts were quickly left to rot. What saved them from being retired far sooner was the fact they were found to be very effective in escorting convoys in Africa - a task no other armored vehicle was able to accomplish, no even the Chaffee. It's combination of very light weight and size with high tactical mobility made it absolutely perfect for an environment no other tank could thrive in.

As for keeping them 10 years after the war... well, I have no idea :lol:

Lord Helmchen wrote:What bothers me a bit is the lack of a "heavy" tank but IMO in a coalition with Spain it would bring in a little fun. Though IMO not a top priority nation. :)

Actually, a 1992 M60A3 TTS could potentially give the Leo 1A5 master race a run for its money, with modern ammunition, decent armor, barrel shroud and that big American TTS making it one of the best mediums in the game. It'd leave Portugal in the same tank situation as Denmark, Norway or ANZAC.

As for the coalition with Spain... as I said, it's not without its merit, but the Anglo-Portuguese Alliance would by far be the most fitting match.

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Re: [Non-included nation] PORTUGAL

Postby Mike » Tue 21 Jun 2016 03:24

Broth3r wrote:Actually, a 1992 M60A3 TTS could potentially give the Leo 1A5 master race a run for its money, with modern ammunition, decent armor, barrel shroud and that big American TTS making it one of the best mediums in the game.


It'd be a 2275m ,17AP, M60A3.
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Re: [Non-included nation] PORTUGAL

Postby Eukie » Tue 21 Jun 2016 17:45

Speaking of tanks to give Portugal, they seem like exactly the nation to buy Super M48's in a WWIII situation where they couldn't buy cheap Leopard 2's. The Super M48 would be an up-armoured, faster, better-optics'ed M48A5AG2 with the FCS of the Leopard 1A5.

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Re: [Non-included nation] PORTUGAL

Postby Mike » Tue 21 Jun 2016 18:14

Eukie wrote:Speaking of tanks to give Portugal, they seem like exactly the nation to buy Super M48's in a WWIII situation where they couldn't buy cheap Leopard 2's. The Super M48 would be an up-armoured, faster, better-optics'ed M48A5AG2 with the FCS of the Leopard 1A5.


Any links?
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Re: [Non-included nation] PORTUGAL

Postby Eukie » Tue 21 Jun 2016 18:15

Mike wrote:
Eukie wrote:Speaking of tanks to give Portugal, they seem like exactly the nation to buy Super M48's in a WWIII situation where they couldn't buy cheap Leopard 2's. The Super M48 would be an up-armoured, faster, better-optics'ed M48A5AG2 with the FCS of the Leopard 1A5.


Any links?


Here you go.

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Re: [Non-included nation] PORTUGAL

Postby Broth3r » Wed 22 Jun 2016 03:05

Eukie wrote:
Mike wrote:
Eukie wrote:Speaking of tanks to give Portugal, they seem like exactly the nation to buy Super M48's in a WWIII situation where they couldn't buy cheap Leopard 2's. The Super M48 would be an up-armoured, faster, better-optics'ed M48A5AG2 with the FCS of the Leopard 1A5.


Any links?


Here you go.

Interesting. I found no plans or interest in acquiring it - to be honest, I found no unfulfilled acquisition plans at all*, which I feel is the largest weakness of my effort, as other countries - particularly NSWP - have proven they're a very good source of units. But I'm not in the turborealism camp, so you'd see no qualms from me were the Super M48 given to Portugal.

*there was a number of aircraft that were on the verge of acquisition in the Sabre replacement program, in particular the F-5E and the Mirage III, but that's all I got. Do check the Wiki page for the A-7P as it goes into detail in that.

I see two issues, however:

- Timeframe. I couldn't find an exact date, but it seems the Super M48 only came about in the 90's.
- But most importantly, the M60A3 is pretty much a Super M48 itself, and the two units would be very similar.

Also, before I forget,
Xeno426 wrote:*ping*
if being summoned yet again to another hopeful nation in such a cheap way isn't too much of an abuse, could I get an air tab roasting? I'm not entirely sure of my loadout proposals.

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Re: [Non-included nation] PORTUGAL

Postby Xeno426 » Wed 22 Jun 2016 18:50

Broth3r wrote:Also, before I forget,
Xeno426 wrote:*ping*
if being summoned yet again to another hopeful nation in such a cheap way isn't too much of an abuse, could I get an air tab roasting? I'm not entirely sure of my loadout proposals.

Portugal never received the AIM-9B. The first Sidewinder they purchased was the AIM-9E in 1977 for their G.91/R3 aircraft, so I doubt their Sabers were ever modified to make use of the missile.

I don't know much about the G.91, so I can't comment too much on their loadouts.

I would contend with the A-7P loadout, though. The aircraft was acquired in 1982, yet your loadout puts it way up to 1994. This leaves CatB with only G.91 and F-86Fs to drop ordinance, which is pretty limited. A better option would be to have multiple A-7P variants, representing different upgrades. They would be equipped with the AIM-9P missile, as they never purchased the AIM-9L or AIM-9M.

The F-16 OCU didn't get delivered until 2003. The 1994 delivery was for base F-16A aircraft (including three F-16B) as part of the "Peace Atlantis" deal.

You missed the F-84E and F-84G aircraft they got from the Netherlands and the USA.

On a final note, Portugal got 20mm armed Alouette IIIs.
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Re: [Non-included nation] PORTUGAL

Postby Holy_crap » Wed 22 Jun 2016 20:17

Obviously Portugal's special forces would be Ronaldo '85, well within timeframe and all weapons in service by then.
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Re: [Non-included nation] PORTUGAL

Postby Eukie » Wed 22 Jun 2016 20:20

Of note:
  • The MILAN 2 was ordered in 1988 and arrived in the 1989-1990 period.
  • Portugal received 28 YP-408's from the Netherlands in 1993.
  • Portugal received 36 second-hand M163 VADS in 1987-1989
  • The V-700 was a variant of the Chaimite that carried SS-11 MCLOS ATGMs.
  • Portugal acquired the Condor APC in 1984
  • Portugal operated the A-7E Corsair II from 1982 to 1984. These could be armed with Sidewinders and Mark 82's.
  • Other weapons for the A-7P include the BAP 100 cluster bomb, the M117 bomb, the CBU-100, the Mark 82, the Mark 83, the Mark 84, FFARs, and the CRV-7.

Broth3r wrote:Interesting. I found no plans or interest in acquiring it - to be honest, I found no unfulfilled acquisition plans at all*, which I feel is the largest weakness of my effort, as other countries - particularly NSWP - have proven they're a very good source of units. But I'm not in the turborealism camp, so you'd see no qualms from me were the Super M48 given to Portugal.


I don't think anyone really considered buying the Super M48. At the time the project was developed, as the article in the link notes, the Cold War had just ended and everyone were in the process of updating their 60's era tanks. Rich countries could buy Leopard 2A4's and Abrams to their heart's content, while less rich nations could buy the M60's, Leopard 1's, AMX-30's, T-72's, etc. that were flooding onto the markets because other countries were upgrading and/or downsizing.

However, with M48's being Portugal's most modern tank until their 1992 M60A3 TTS purchase, I imagine that in the hypothetical WWIIIs of Wargame, they might actually have been a prime customer.

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