Israel beta for all

Terracos
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Re: Israel beta for all

Postby Terracos » Fri 30 Sep 2016 15:00

Another thing i want to adress. The availability for the Merkava IIA seems to be pretty high. You get two cards of 9 units with the Mesaya'at. Isnt this a little bit high? Especially Compared to other high-value IFVs (Marder2, Bradley 2A2). Especially the Marder with only 1 Card.

Israel dosnt need to bring any Medium tank at all and can just pick three high value Tank cards and "hide" the other ones in the Inf Tab. This frees up 2AP compared to every other nation. If you see the anti INF capability of the Marder and the Bradley this seems quite crazy especially as you dont get almost no anti tank value out of the marder2.

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Re: Israel beta for all

Postby GARGEAN » Fri 30 Sep 2016 15:01

Mighty_Zuk wrote:Hard to compare a mid-50 ton tank to a 65 ton tank in terms of general protection.

Lol. Compare T-72 with 39 tonn mass with Leo 1 with 40 tonn mass. Who is better protected?
Ah, screw this, with who am I talking about?

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Re: Israel beta for all

Postby Mighty_Zuk » Fri 30 Sep 2016 15:53

GARGEAN wrote:
Mighty_Zuk wrote:Hard to compare a mid-50 ton tank to a 65 ton tank in terms of general protection.

Lol. Compare T-72 with 39 tonn mass with Leo 1 with 40 tonn mass. Who is better protected?
Ah, screw this, with who am I talking about?


1)Leopard 1 was larger by height and length than a T-72 tank. Not to mention it was older and conceived at a time where HEAT warheads were considered to be the end of heavy armor, and was made especially thin armored.

2)You are talking to me. And we are talking about armor scheme of several comparable tanks of the same era.

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Re: Israel beta for all

Postby DeckCheney » Fri 30 Sep 2016 16:30

Mighty_Zuk wrote:Every Soviet superheavy sits at either 22 or 23AP, when IRL they would have 18-20.


Were/are Soviet Era penetrators really that comparatively bad? I understand there are physical design limitations of longer munitions for the autoloaders, but did chemical engineering not overcome some of these problems to allow the 2A46M to frontally penetrate western armor?
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Re: Israel beta for all

Postby hansbroger » Fri 30 Sep 2016 16:43

It's simple, make the III Baz pay the GLATGM tax. If it didn't have the GLATGM it would currently be priced decently so add on the 5-10 point premium that gets slapped on Redfor tanks for the GLATGM.
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Re: Israel beta for all

Postby Azaz3l » Fri 30 Sep 2016 16:47

DeckCheney wrote:
Mighty_Zuk wrote:Every Soviet superheavy sits at either 22 or 23AP, when IRL they would have 18-20.


Were/are Soviet Era penetrators really that comparatively bad? I understand there are physical design limitations of longer munitions for the autoloaders, but did chemical engineering not overcome some of these problems to allow the 2A46M to frontally penetrate western armor?

No, avoid listening to him as others said already. 1980s 125mm APFSDS would have comparable or slightly worse performance to American M829 seen on M1A1 in game. With 90s you get 3BM-46 Svinets which is comparable to US M829A1 and is pushing the limit of 2A46M to the max.
Last edited by Azaz3l on Fri 30 Sep 2016 16:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Israel beta for all

Postby orcbuster » Fri 30 Sep 2016 16:48

DeckCheney wrote:
Mighty_Zuk wrote:Every Soviet superheavy sits at either 22 or 23AP, when IRL they would have 18-20.


Were/are Soviet Era penetrators really that comparatively bad?


No not really. 3BM-46 APFSDS and its successor the 3BM-42M was roughly equivalent to contemporary NATO penetrators. The latter only fit in later series tank autoloaders (T-90/BU) though which solved the whole length problem.
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Re: Israel beta for all

Postby morpher » Fri 30 Sep 2016 16:51

orcbuster wrote:
DeckCheney wrote:
Mighty_Zuk wrote:Every Soviet superheavy sits at either 22 or 23AP, when IRL they would have 18-20.


Were/are Soviet Era penetrators really that comparatively bad?


No not really. 3BM-46 APFSDS and its successor the 3BM-42M was roughly equivalent to contemporary NATO penetrators. The latter only fit in later series tank autoloaders (T-90/BU) though which solved the whole length problem.


Are the 90s still in the soviet era?

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orcbuster
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Re: Israel beta for all

Postby orcbuster » Fri 30 Sep 2016 16:55

morpher wrote:Are the 90s still in the soviet era?


It is in game yes.
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Re: Israel beta for all

Postby Razzmann » Fri 30 Sep 2016 17:15

Kyu Maru and Leclerc do have 11rpm indeed.

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