Israel patriot missile

User avatar
Mako
General
Posts: 7352
Joined: Sun 5 May 2013 20:00
Location: Cascadia
Contact:

Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Mako » Mon 3 Oct 2016 04:10

Narcissistic Black wrote:
Mako wrote:The Longbow is kind of a BS unit for balance purposes, it essentially screws over a bunch of helicopters by forcing AA to be capable of dealing with it, making AA hyper effective against weaker helicopters.


Yeah the Hinds with their 10HP or the KA-52 with its Sead Missiles are defiantly not helping make hyper effective AA.


Unless you're shooting things with Hawks, 8 vs 10 HP makes no difference.

It's still 2 htk


Also, lol at SEAD missiles.
If there's two kinds of players, those that like challenges and those that want a fair game, pubstomps should make everyone happy.

User avatar
QUAD
Colonel
Posts: 2766
Joined: Sun 10 Nov 2013 21:17
Contact:

Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby QUAD » Mon 3 Oct 2016 04:52

Mako wrote:
Narcissistic Black wrote:
Mako wrote:The Longbow is kind of a BS unit for balance purposes, it essentially screws over a bunch of helicopters by forcing AA to be capable of dealing with it, making AA hyper effective against weaker helicopters.


Yeah the Hinds with their 10HP or the KA-52 with its Sead Missiles are defiantly not helping make hyper effective AA.


Unless you're shooting things with Hawks, 8 vs 10 HP makes no difference.

It's still 2 htk


Also, lol at SEAD missiles.


SPAAG though.
Mobile Units Operational :!:

User avatar
Mako
General
Posts: 7352
Joined: Sun 5 May 2013 20:00
Location: Cascadia
Contact:

Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Mako » Mon 3 Oct 2016 05:01

imessedupthequotesoops wrote:
QUAD wrote:
Mako wrote:
Yeah the Hinds with their 10HP or the KA-52 with its Sead Missiles are defiantly not helping make hyper effective AA.


Unless you're shooting things with Hawks, 8 vs 10 HP makes no difference.

It's still 2 htk


Also, lol at SEAD missiles.


SPAAG though.


Are not the primary helo killing method, long range missiles are, like the Tung-M and Crotale and Chap A3.

But yes, it does marginally impact SPAAGs a whole 25% TTK

Which, is less than 25% actual effectiveness since they will invariable stun a helicopter before it's killed, meaning 10 vs 8 hp is not 25% more survivable, it just dances around like a drunken whale for another second before dying.


Obviously there are situations where the difference will matter, my point is that they are not worth considering as consequential.
If there's two kinds of players, those that like challenges and those that want a fair game, pubstomps should make everyone happy.

User avatar
Mephistopheles
Sergeant First-Class
Posts: 135
Joined: Sat 12 Mar 2016 00:17
Contact:

Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Mephistopheles » Mon 3 Oct 2016 05:11

Azaz3l wrote:
danielbr14 wrote:Israel is already lacking in AA ...

Yes, let's make Israel an equivalent to USSR/USA.


Its about balancing. A lot of nations didnt get units they actually do have like alreeady pointed out...no patriots for germany and no Bradleys with stingers or even LAV-AD for USA and so on. If its about realism than especially PACT would suffer a lot since they only got the monkey versions of T72
Image

User avatar
Mako
General
Posts: 7352
Joined: Sun 5 May 2013 20:00
Location: Cascadia
Contact:

Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Mako » Mon 3 Oct 2016 05:19

Israel *is* about equivalent to the USA/USSR on a tactical level, they have a stupidly large arms industry (especially compared to their size and population) and some pretty great access to US technology.

They also have a whole lot more combat experience than either of the two, due to the whole, fighting multiple conventional wars unlike either super power.

Now the Merkavas are overmodeled, but both realistically and according to Eugen's decision on making Israel stand alone, they should be comparable in warame.
If there's two kinds of players, those that like challenges and those that want a fair game, pubstomps should make everyone happy.

User avatar
Killertomato
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon 9 Jul 2012 02:46
Contact:

Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Killertomato » Mon 3 Oct 2016 05:28

Israel *is* about equivalent to the USA/USSR on a tactical level, they have a stupidly large arms industry (especially compared to their size and population) and some pretty great access to US technology.


People forget that wargame is unit vs. unit and not entire nation vs. entire nation.
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

User avatar
Fade2Gray
General
Posts: 8659
Joined: Wed 1 May 2013 23:30
Location: IED proof in Iraq
Contact:

Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Fade2Gray » Mon 3 Oct 2016 06:23

Mako wrote:Now the Merkavas are overmodeled, but both realistically and according to Eugen's decision on making Israel stand alone, they should be comparable in warame.


You know, considering the Blue Dragons, they have functional enough tanks, AA, AND artillery support. The Type 10 is a vicious tank in its own right. With this in mind, I can't help but wonder if they could have balanced it in another way?

Bloc and Scandi don't have tanks of top FAV tier, but they are just fine. Same goes for the Blue Dragons(barring the shit infantry), so I'm kinda lost as to defending the over modeling of the Merkava.
Image
Image
Think you have what it takes to enlist into the military? You sure about that?

GARGEAN
Brigadier
Posts: 3496
Joined: Wed 9 Apr 2014 14:19
Contact:

Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby GARGEAN » Mon 3 Oct 2016 10:23

USSR has KAB-500 since 1976, let's give it to them. It had KAB-1500L since 1981, let's give it to them. It has 2S4 since 1972, let's give it to them. It has OTR-21 since 1975, let's. S-300V since 1983, let's. Buk-M2 since 1988, let's. Shturm-S with 9M120 since 1986, let's. Let's, let's, let's, let's...

In this game dudes get their toys not because they had them IRL. But because of.

User avatar
Razzmann
General
Posts: 7497
Joined: Fri 7 Mar 2014 15:29
Location: The land of flowing beer and Sauerkraut.
Contact:

Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Razzmann » Mon 3 Oct 2016 10:25

Narcissistic Black wrote:
Mako wrote:The Longbow is kind of a BS unit for balance purposes, it essentially screws over a bunch of helicopters by forcing AA to be capable of dealing with it, making AA hyper effective against weaker helicopters.


Yeah the Hinds with their 10HP or the KA-52 with its Sead Missiles are defiantly not helping make hyper effective AA.

Ka-52 can be baited and the HP on Hinds only really makes a difference when helorushing.

User avatar
Leviathan
Chief Warrant Officer
Posts: 735
Joined: Mon 13 Feb 2012 15:11
Location: steeelth enabled
Contact:

Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Leviathan » Mon 3 Oct 2016 11:09

Razzmann wrote:
Narcissistic Black wrote:
Mako wrote:The Longbow is kind of a BS unit for balance purposes, it essentially screws over a bunch of helicopters by forcing AA to be capable of dealing with it, making AA hyper effective against weaker helicopters.


Yeah the Hinds with their 10HP or the KA-52 with its Sead Missiles are defiantly not helping make hyper effective AA.

Ka-52 can be baited and the HP on Hinds only really makes a difference when helorushing.
yes. If any helo deserves 10 than it's the Hind.

As long as there's online gaming people will exploit certain game mechanics for cheese tactics to gain easy wins- mentality will never be fixed by nerfing individual units. People will just move on to the next cheese. Man, we've seen a lot of cheesy rushes since the start of EE, lol. The downfall of T-55 stun-train rushes just gave birth to the prevalance of autocannons and flame tanks burning the world without LOS...

mote OT: Judging from the youtube content I've seen so far most players that have early access to the DLC evolved a special hate relationship to Israeli AA, though. Firestarter and his Drakons, for example. :lol:
I sguess Israeli AA-sadness will serve as a mighty counter argument for any nerfs on other weapon systems.
I fear we all will have to adapt to the Shenaz :P

Return to “Wargame : Red Dragon”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 43 guests