Israel patriot missile

codextero
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Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby codextero » Mon 3 Oct 2016 16:22

Mighty_Zuk wrote:
Mephistopheles wrote:UK
France
Germany
Sweden
China

all lot of the existing vehicles and weapons availble to those country are not availbale or availble for only one country. listed countries are also major exporters of military equipment. All of these nations have huge shortcommings in specific fields while its not or not that much the case with USA, USSR and from what we know about the coming israel DLC


What does either of these countries have IRL that it doesn't have in game, that would have changed their gameplay noticeably?

Using the samr timeframe/criteria as Israel
UK
-Westland Agusta Apache
-AIM-120B on Eurofighter
-Starburst
-MRAAM multirole Tornado or Eurofighter

France
-More Leclerc Tranches
-Multirole Rafales

Germany
-PZH 2000
-German Eurofighter
-140mm leopard
- more G11

Not awfully familiar with the Swedes

China
- PLZ 45
- Type 96
- type 98
- PLZ- 89
- R-77 from the soviets
- GL infantry (China loves those things)

USA is the one that has the most possible missing things
- JSOW
- CBU-97
- M240 BAT
- LOSAT
- ADATS
- FGM-148
- FIM-92E
- AIM-120B
- MRAAM multiroles
- TOW-2 A/B
- ODS versions of M2/M3
- M249
- M1A1 D
- M1A2 SEP
- F-22
- RAH-66
- Airtab F-18E
- AGM-65D/G

Israel plays fast and loose to be able to work as a standalone, which is ok. But it wasn't really any more technologically advanced than the other Blufor majors.

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Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Mighty_Zuk » Mon 3 Oct 2016 17:20

codextero wrote:
Mighty_Zuk wrote:
Mephistopheles wrote:UK
France
Germany
Sweden
China

all lot of the existing vehicles and weapons availble to those country are not availbale or availble for only one country. listed countries are also major exporters of military equipment. All of these nations have huge shortcommings in specific fields while its not or not that much the case with USA, USSR and from what we know about the coming israel DLC


What does either of these countries have IRL that it doesn't have in game, that would have changed their gameplay noticeably?

Using the samr timeframe/criteria as Israel
UK
-Westland Agusta Apache
-AIM-120B on Eurofighter
-Starburst
-MRAAM multirole Tornado or Eurofighter

AgustaWestland Apache began production in 1998. This is OOTF.
First AIM-120B deliveries began in 1994.
Lack of starburst is compensated by the still decent AA infantry with Javelin GL. UK in general has good AA in game.
The Eurofighter does have MRAAMs (AIM-9M). And all Tornado versions come equipped with 2/4 AIM-9L missiles, including the multirole one.

I see no crippling gap here.


France
-More Leclerc Tranches
-Multirole Rafales

You mean more availability for the Leclerc? Because T5 was probably the latest version that existed within the timeframe.
France has some very decent Mirage fighters, that aside from ECM on 2 of them, they're well equipped.

Nothing that would alter the gameplay noticeably. Keep in mind France has some very good infantry, artillery and AA.


Germany
-PZH 2000
-German Eurofighter
-140mm leopard
- more G11

PzH 2000 - designed in 1996 and entered production in 1998. This is OOTF. By that time, Israel had the ATMOS (albeit didn't buy more than a few prototypes) and Rascal, but they're not in game.
Aside for the F-4F Germany does not have any good ASF, but does it really need another ASF? Germany's air tab isn't very good, but its air force ain't living up to the expectations IRL either.

Leopard 140 is not just merely a prototype, but is not even half a prototype. The only thing they did (by the way, it was Switzerland, not Germany) was put a 140mm cannon in a standard Leo 2A4 turret on a standard Leo 2A4 hull. They did not design new ammo bins, did not change the turret to fit the ammo, and did not do the necessary modifications to accommodate the gun other than place a few weights in the back and sides of the turret to keep the gun from cracking the mantlet.

So by this logic, Switzerland should be added to the game with the Leo 2-140, USA should get the CATTB, USSR should get any tank armed with a 152mm gun (despite these not being functional tanks), and Israel should get a 140mm on Merkava 4 as well because the 140mm project was a joint IMI-RUAG development.


Not awfully familiar with the Swedes

None is.

China
- PLZ 45
- Type 96
- type 98
- PLZ- 89
- R-77 from the soviets
- GL infantry (China loves those things)

Type 98 is OOTF.
Same with PLZ-89.


USA is the one that has the most possible missing things
- JSOW
- CBU-97
- M240 BAT
- LOSAT
- ADATS
- FGM-148
- FIM-92E
- AIM-120B
- MRAAM multiroles
- TOW-2 A/B
- ODS versions of M2/M3
- M249
- M1A1 D
- M1A2 SEP
- F-22
- RAH-66
- Airtab F-18E
- AGM-65D/G

Israel plays fast and loose to be able to work as a standalone, which is ok. But it wasn't really any more technologically advanced than the other Blufor majors.

Depends on what field of technology we're talking about.

As I've said, Israel is lacking a very good portion of equipment that is within time frame, and yet it plays well. Not too good though, as we've seen Israel losing more matches than winning.
But what these nations lack does not create any crippling effect. They would play about the same with or without those additions.

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Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Narcissistic Black » Mon 3 Oct 2016 19:35

Razzmann wrote:
Narcissistic Black wrote:
Mako wrote:The Longbow is kind of a BS unit for balance purposes, it essentially screws over a bunch of helicopters by forcing AA to be capable of dealing with it, making AA hyper effective against weaker helicopters.


Yeah the Hinds with their 10HP or the KA-52 with its Sead Missiles are defiantly not helping make hyper effective AA.

Ka-52 can be baited and the HP on Hinds only really makes a difference when helorushing.

By that logic Longbow is outranged by many AA
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Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Xeno426 » Mon 3 Oct 2016 19:37

Mighty_Zuk wrote:
First AIM-120B deliveries began in 1994.
Lack of starburst is compensated by the still decent AA infantry with Javelin GL. UK in general has good AA in game.
The Eurofighter does have MRAAMs (AIM-9M). And all Tornado versions come equipped with 2/4 AIM-9L missiles, including the multirole one.

First AIM-120B in 1994? That's within proto timeline (which typically extends to 1995, though it gets bent for units like the K1A1).
AIM-9M is not an MRAAM (Medium Range Anti-Air Missile), it's an SRAAM. Multirole Tornado is still well outside of the game's timeline; the Typhoon didn't get cleared for air to ground ordinance until a few years after IOC (same with Rafale, though).

Mighty_Zuk wrote:PzH 2000 - designed in 1996 and entered production in 1998. This is OOTF. By that time, Israel had the ATMOS (albeit didn't buy more than a few prototypes) and Rascal, but they're not in game.
Aside for the F-4F Germany does not have any good ASF, but does it really need another ASF? Germany's air tab isn't very good, but its air force ain't living up to the expectations IRL either.

But the F-15I and F-15C Baz Meshupar are in the game. South Korea has the AIM-120, despite not getting deliveries until 1998. North Korea has the Mi-24 at all.
And the German Eurofighter hit IOC before the British one. :P
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Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Mako » Mon 3 Oct 2016 19:43

No, you can troll the Ka-52 by toggling your AA on and off while moving it.

You can't do that to a longbow.
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Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Razzmann » Mon 3 Oct 2016 19:49

Narcissistic Black wrote:By that logic Longbow is outranged by many AA

By what logic?
Last time I checked, turning off the guns on my tank while moving does not make the Hellfire miss.

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Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby wargamer1985 » Mon 3 Oct 2016 19:52

Razzmann wrote:
Narcissistic Black wrote:By that logic Longbow is outranged by many AA

By what logic?
Last time I checked, turning off the guns on my tank while moving does not make the Hellfire miss.

If only it was that easy...if only...
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Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Narcissistic Black » Mon 3 Oct 2016 19:58

Razzmann wrote:
Narcissistic Black wrote:By that logic Longbow is outranged by many AA

By what logic?
Last time I checked, turning off the guns on my tank while moving does not make the Hellfire miss.



Razzmann wrote:Ka-52 can be baited and the HP on Hinds only really makes a difference when helorushing.


Maybe logic was the wrong word. The comment that these unit are useless or situational. I similarity just named something that would defeat longbow to make it useless or situational.
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Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby Demonicjapsel » Mon 3 Oct 2016 19:58

i find it funny people try to play the Patriot Card while NL, a country that got the Patriot in 86 and was the First user of the Thing in Europe did not get it, which is fine, because it should be a US weapon only. Israel is no exception, and like the US it should have an area where it struggles.

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Re: Israel patriot missile

Postby another505 » Mon 3 Oct 2016 20:03

kiheerSEDMAN wrote:
another505 wrote:Back about 10 hp hind?

Give me a reason why fixed planes have 10 hp too
Or how realistic is a10 taking 3 buk shots

Is just gameplay
Having 1 armor all around is gameplay enough. There is no gameplay reason for Hinds to have 10 HP.

sure there is, it can actually take some missiles and not die

Mi-24 are fine as 10 hp individually, but it is terrible for Tactical Outplay, but then, 6 HP works too,

Leave at it is, changing it 8HP also means a lot of prices changes when the Hinds are used everywhere....
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