Israeli armoured works! What can be learned from it?

Pleb Squasher
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Israeli armoured works! What can be learned from it?

Postby Pleb Squasher » Sun 9 Oct 2016 15:03

Israeli armoured decks have got to be the most competitive armoured decks in wargame. They easily have the best units for the job and I think Eugen can learn a lot by looking at what makes the Israeli armoured deck far more useful than other nation's, and perhaps making some minor changes in a future patch to help these decks.

- Bardelas and Zelda
While these are the standout mentions, this section also applies to all the Israeli APCs with multiple machine guns mounted on them. It could be argued that these transports are op, while I agree I would opt not to change them. The extra firepower these things have serves to make Israeli line infantry (which come in them) immensely more viable and useful. Because armoured decks rely exclusively on line infantry for almost all their infantry duties, these transports are incredibly important.
So while I do think these vehicles really should be changed to fit in line with other nations M113s etc. until line infantry get general buffs I think these vehicles are very important to this deck.

- High rate of fire on almost all MBT main guns
Wargame needs flavour, however it's indisputable that armoured decks that rely on tanks with low rates of fire (UK, Soviets, etc.) really suffer. Damage application is the most important trait any unit in RD can have, while it's nice that soviet tanks often have higher ap than their nato counterparts or that British tanks trade higher armour for lower RoF, it's generally a serious issue in any engagement to have less rate of fire than your enemy. Almost all Israeli tanks fire 10 rounds a minute meaning you're very rarely outmatched by enemy tanks regarding this important trait.

- Tiran-5 Blazer
The idea of a cheap, light recon tank is important for all armoured decks so that they have offensive recon for use during a push. The Blazer costs literally only 5 points more than the T-55 and costs the same as leopard 1 recon variants but is a lot better than both. This unit is so good I can see all types of decks using it.

- Generous secondary tank armaments.
All the Merkava series of tank (except the IIID Baz) possess 2 machine guns or have a grenade launcher thrown on. There's not much to say here, having these extra armaments on tanks makes them infinitely more useful for supporting infantry and the grenade launchers are invaluable. It's also nice to finally get grenade launchers on heavily armoured units that aren't BMPTs, it makes Merkavas well rounded tanks that can engage enemy armour and infantry with equal efficiency.

- Well balanced tanks
All Israeli tanks are good units, even the cheepest, least unique options are decent. The reason Israeli tanks are so useful is that are well balanced, blending good rate of fire, standard level ap with good armour and decent mobility. A lot of other Nations in game have distinct and annoying weaknesses with their tanks, British tanks are painfully slow and fire horrendously slowly, German tanks often sport a bit less armour than their counterparts but are faster, Russian designed vehicles have poor rate of fire and tanks like the T-72B have lower armour than suits their price range, making them a little vulnerable. US tanks either have strong guns or strong armour but not often both. Israeli tanks have their traits balanced out a lot better than some nations, and a little better than others, making them much more useful as your core units.

- Cost effective AA and ASFs
Anti air cover is very important for armoured, mainly because you invest a lot more in tanks than other decks and it's very easy for your opponent to kill a lot of points with planes when those points are in tank form. Israelis have the Pivads under the name Hovet, one of the best AA pieces in the game and they also have the Machbet. Units like the Machbet are important as the blend of missile and gun means they put out a staggering amount of damage when targets enter their range, this is very important for armoured decks to protect from diving ATGM aircraft and rushing helicopters. Large SAMs are still pretty unreliable anti air options, so units like this are the AA armoured decks rely upon.
Israeli fighter aircraft options are also strong. They aren't overly expensive options like the SU-27PU but offer competitive ASFs which not only reliably shoot down enemy ground attack craft, but can also hold their own against enemy ASFs.
Part of the reason cheap yet effective ASF cover is really important for armoured, is because the deck type forces you to spend most of your points on tanks and their supporting units, an expensive combination. As a result, the ability to save points when buying your ASFs but still receiving reliable units is very important.

- Actually possessing decent helicopter options
Almost all armoured decks very unfairly get extremely poor selection of helos, however it's not uncommon for armoured formations to have helicopters supporting them. Armoured decks are already very slow, wargame always has situations where you need fast reaction unit options. You never want to be spending a lot on helos when playing armoured, you just need helis that are cheap and can kill light units, Israeli helos are perfect for this and you get a cobra variant with AA missiles! This variant is super important for ensuring your opponent can't easy mode their way into essential positions early game. Armoured deserves to be slow, however nothing is more important than early game positioning in wargame, Israeli armoured decks are good because they can actually compete here to a limited degree, rather than automatically forgoing all the pivotal positions that exist on every map.

- Extensive and flexible support tab
The Israeli armoured support options are generous and not harshly limited like many nation's, this allows players to pick the support options that work best for them rather than being forced to use the few key options many armoured decks are limited to.

So Israeli armoured covers the three main things that an armoured deck needs:
- Balanced and versatile tanks
- Competent core infantry (via their strong transports in this case)
- Actually having cost effective support/recon options to support their tanks which are expensive.

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Sweedish_Gunner
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Re: Israeli armoured works! What can be learned from it?

Postby Sweedish_Gunner » Sun 9 Oct 2016 15:16

Surely it sucks when you get SEADed and some Mi-28's show up? :|
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Frencho
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Re: Israeli armoured works! What can be learned from it?

Postby Frencho » Sun 9 Oct 2016 15:25

Sure it's the most competitive armoured deck, thanks to ridiculously over-modelled FAV, RoF and AP values...

And yet you have the nerve to consider Tzahal tanks well balanced :shock:

This post in a nutshell = Validating Power Creep .

IDF needs to be toned down, not everyone else power crept up to their OP level.

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Re: Israeli armoured works! What can be learned from it?

Postby Pleb Squasher » Sun 9 Oct 2016 15:49

Frencho wrote:Sure it's the most competitive armoured deck, thanks to ridiculously over-modelled FAV, RoF and AP values...

And yet you have the nerve to consider Tzahal tanks well balanced :shock:

This post in a nutshell = Validating Power Creep .

IDF needs to be toned down, not everyone else power crept up to their OP level.


Consider that I'm talking in context to armoured decks, not their units in general. They do have a lot of nasty units, as it expected with paid DLC.
You can't deny though, the traits are important for an armoured decks to be successful.
When I state that they're well balanced, what I actually mean is that the tanks do everything decently, with no shortcomings. They're mobile, have good armour, good guns, they're not bad or particularly good at anything, just generally decent.

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HrcAk47
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Re: Israeli armoured works! What can be learned from it?

Postby HrcAk47 » Sun 9 Oct 2016 15:55

I am pretty certain Israeli Armored will be good even when all their tanks get -2 to -3 FAV shaven off.

And I see no reason why it shouldn't be good after the nerf.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: Israeli armoured works! What can be learned from it?

Postby Fade2Gray » Sun 9 Oct 2016 16:13

Sweedish_Gunner wrote:Surely it sucks when you get SEADed and some Mi-28's show up? :|


Ding ding ding!

Heaven forbid it's a BLU on BLU game and LOLbows show up. Who needs SEAD Then?

Israeli armored is not what scares me, Israeli general with helo Maglans rushed to key points and backed by Stinger Cobras is what scares me.
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Re: Israeli armoured works! What can be learned from it?

Postby Hartmann » Sun 9 Oct 2016 16:18

Frencho wrote:Sure it's the most competitive armoured deck


Is it? Why?

HrcAk47 wrote:And I see no reason why it shouldn't be good after the nerf.


What nerf?

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HrcAk47
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Re: Israeli armoured works! What can be learned from it?

Postby HrcAk47 » Sun 9 Oct 2016 16:20

Hartmann wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:And I see no reason why it shouldn't be good after the nerf.


What nerf?


The nerf that is inevitably coming. Surely you don't think things will remain like they are? ;)
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: Israeli armoured works! What can be learned from it?

Postby ToTheMetal » Sun 9 Oct 2016 16:21

Fade2Gray wrote:
Sweedish_Gunner wrote:Surely it sucks when you get SEADed and some Mi-28's show up? :|


Ding ding ding!

Heaven forbid it's a BLU on BLU game and LOLbows show up. Who needs SEAD Then?

Israeli armored is not what scares me, Israeli general with helo Maglans rushed to key points and backed by Stinger Cobras is what scares me.

You can buy 300 points worth of DAPs and win every single game against that opener, at the same time losing every single game against any other opener. Welcome to Wargame, you suck.
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Re: Israeli armoured works! What can be learned from it?

Postby Fade2Gray » Sun 9 Oct 2016 16:22

Another thing to ponder with Pleb's post: who has their Zeldas live long enough for having multiple MGs to actually matter?

HrcAk47 wrote:I am pretty certain Israeli Armored will be good even when all their tanks get -2 to -3 FAV shaven off.

And I see no reason why it shouldn't be good after the nerf.


I'm betting that their armor will not be touched, but the Merks with 10rpm will be dropped to 9.
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