1v1 ranked automatch should take into account a player's rank

throwaway
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Re: 1v1 ranked automatch should take into account a player's rank

Postby throwaway » Sat 5 Nov 2016 00:07

Armageddon wrote:It is not minutes. The other poster said 2-3 SECONDS. The system gives up on automatch after a few seconds. Click the link I posted above and read the post.


I don't need to read his post, I know how ranked works..

Here's how it works: the longer the timer goes, the lower an opponent you can get. For example, if I'm a MajG, I need to wait roughly 10 minutes to be matched against a private (650 elo difference). But this is one-sided; if I've waited 10 minutes I'll get the first person to queue as soon as they queue, and if a private has been waiting 10 minutes and I queue I'll get them immediately.

Believe it or not, a ranked game usually starts every 2-3 minutes, so it's hard to get matched vs a private from 2100 elo even if you're intentionally trying to. Anyway, to avoid getting lowrank opponents, highrank people usually reset their search every 2-3 minutes. You can still get matched if the other guy is clueless and letting his timer go high, but that's usually obvious: it's been one person in queue for 10 minutes with no increase in ongoing games? Chances are you'll get that person as soon as you queue.

Automating this process for people who don't want elo variance would be useful but people can and do get the same effect manually already.

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Re: 1v1 ranked automatch should take into account a player's rank

Postby Armageddon » Sat 5 Nov 2016 00:25

You say it's minutes, I say it's seconds.

throwaway wrote:Automating this process for people who don't want elo variance would be useful but people can and do get the same effect manually already.


Regarding ELO, I suggested in my first post in this thread that the same rank thing should be introduced as an option. This way players can CHOOSE to play at the same rank or play as things are now. i.e. Small ELO variance, or big ELO variance (in either direction).

Here is the post, the seconds and 86% thing:

Drrty-D wrote:
daredevilcod wrote:i am lvl 13 and wanted some challenge so i had an idea to 1v1 in automatch and here what i got a level 24 major with 54% victory and 271 ranked game seriously ??? against level 24 major ??? and u r expecting people to play ranked games with automatch like that ???

i prefer not to get game rather than get raped in an unequal noncompetitive match like that....


There is one tip i can give you-Dont search when there is no one there,search only when you see 1 or 3 or more :lol: players search,then if you start and you dont get the game in next 3-5 sec altough you both are searching the same time,it means you are not the same league and if dont feel ready click Cancel and wait for him to find antother guy to play against.

For example a high ranked player can recognize that he will play a Private if he waits a long time to get automatched altough they 2 only search.I dont know exactly the time waiting for each rank,but i am sure it goes like this,this is how i got my 86% in 18 Ranked games by pwning only Privates :mrgreen: .


The only people who lose with my suggestion are those who enjoy stomping Privates.

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Re: 1v1 ranked automatch should take into account a player's rank

Postby cheer up » Sat 5 Nov 2016 16:25

Armageddon wrote:You say it's minutes, I say it's seconds.
that's why you're wrong :|

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Re: 1v1 ranked automatch should take into account a player's rank

Postby Random » Sat 5 Nov 2016 19:39

cuski wrote:Or people (speaking from experience) don't play ranked because they don't like playing 1v1 or 2v2.


elaborate please. Samplesize/source?


OP: your assumption that this would improve things depends on what values you assign to different kinds of matchups and waiting times. Your suggestion increases waittimes by a lot, but creates specific matchups, close ones to be exact. This is only good if people A. care little about waittimes and B. dislike uneven matchups.

Personally I never cared about waitingtimes, as I always searched in windowed mode and was doing something else meanwhile, and I dislike playing people who are lower ranked then me (if more then 100-150 points). The bigger the difference, the bigger the dislike for playing those matches.

But I have no data at all if that is true for other people aswell, this might just aswell (and how I see it, more likely) lead to people quiting ranked due to waittimes, which icreases waittimes, which leads to even less ppl playing, leading to a dead rankedmode.

In conclussion I consider this more likely to kill ranked then to make more ppl play it more often.

If I could change smth in ranked I would add the option to deselect x maps ( with x being at least 0.5 maps less then half the mappool, obv), meaning you get to skip some of the boring/ badly designed maps.

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Re: 1v1 ranked automatch should take into account a player's rank

Postby Armageddon » Sat 5 Nov 2016 22:28

Random wrote:But I have no data at all if that is true for other people aswell, this might just aswell (and how I see it, more likely) lead to people quiting ranked due to waittimes, which icreases waittimes, which leads to even less ppl playing, leading to a dead rankedmode.


Again, you misunderstand the point. The idea is to increase the number of players. People are not playing or have stopped playing ranked because of the uneven matchups. With more players, the wait times will reduce. If ranked is now dead because few people are playing, what is there to lose?

Furthermore, if the trick to ranked is to not search first but to jump in when someone else is searching and then only do so for a few SECONDS, as the other person says, then naturally few people search first - and as a result there is little activity.

When players are allowed to search within their rank, more will initiate a search and for longer, because they know they will play within their rank. i.e. They will wait. Right now, many are reluctant to search first, and when they do, they stop so as to avoid being NOT automatched, because automatch stops after a few seconds. Result, less searches and less activity.

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Re: 1v1 ranked automatch should take into account a player's rank

Postby throwaway » Sun 6 Nov 2016 01:34

Look at stealth's ranked series. Out of 10 matches he met 1 major, everyone else was IIRC within 100 elo of him. People who don't play ranked make all sorts of excuses to protect their self image as good players, that you get unbalanced matchups, that its full of smurfs, that its full of helorushes, but in reality most of these things account for a minority of matches. The reason ranked isn't the main mode is that it's not presented as the main mode, and that many people see it as something to try only once they've gotten good at the game (again, see stealth with his first ranked game after 2000 hours or whatever the exact number is).

Uneven matchups are a problem but it's not the one that will "fix" ranked because its not the main cause for the lack of players in the first place.

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Re: 1v1 ranked automatch should take into account a player's rank

Postby morpher » Sun 6 Nov 2016 01:42

Matching with a higher rank player is not that terrible. I went to col by beating random twice in a row.

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Re: 1v1 ranked automatch should take into account a player's rank

Postby serg123 » Sun 6 Nov 2016 02:58

Wasn't it you who was stomped by razzmann - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjpMOPritsA
Its terrible..

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Re: 1v1 ranked automatch should take into account a player's rank

Postby throwaway » Sun 6 Nov 2016 03:11

that wasnt a ranked match

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Re: 1v1 ranked automatch should take into account a player's rank

Postby Armageddon » Sun 6 Nov 2016 04:41

throwaway wrote:Look at stealth's ranked series.... Uneven matchups are a problem but it's not the one that will "fix" ranked because its not the main cause for the lack of players in the first place.


Yes, I have seen some of stealth's games on youtube. Why did he stop playing ranked? Because he said he wasn't enjoying it. And I gather he wasn't enjoying it because he was losing more often than not.

Here's how ranked should work, ideally.

1. If a player wins, his ELO rises and so he is matched against someone at his new higher ELO level in the next game. Thus in theory he can continue to rank up.

2. If a player loses, his ELO falls and so he is matched against someone at his new lower ELO level in the next game. Thus in theory he can recover.

With this approach, a player wins sometimes and loses sometimes. If the player wins more often than not, then he ranks up. This idea focuses on ELO rather than rank.

But even if the system were to focus on pairing by rank, it would still be better than what it is now. Now it is all over the place.

Fact is, if a player gets stomped and stomped and stomped, say 86% of the time, sooner or later that player will stop playing.

To those who enjoy stomping, ask, what happens when Eugen decides Wargame is no longer commercially viable, because the numbers are continuing to fall? Indeed, the question must be ask, why did Eugen decide to do an old school RTS instead of Wargame 4?

Right now, the automatch system will try to automatch for a short while (apparently seconds) and then it will stop and just pair. What I'm suggesting is to let the player decide whether to automatch or not?

If it turns out people like being stomped and to stomp, then more players will choose not to automatch than to automatch. And thus the phenomenon of stomping can carry on.

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