Xeno's air tabs changes

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Broth3r
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Broth3r » Tue 10 Jan 2017 06:36

So I just came across this picture.

Image

And I'm slightly obsessed with it.

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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Vulcan 607 » Tue 10 Jan 2017 07:07

Good point frangiblecover I am still amused that the aim7e2 was better in a dog fight over the aim9 because the sidewnder kept losing lock in a tight turning dogfight

Also xeno if you read this saw a photo of a viper over Afghanistan why would it be carrying aim120s?

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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Xeno426 » Tue 10 Jan 2017 07:24

FrangibleCover wrote:Aww man if we're playing that game the US F-4J becomes outright the worst aircraft in game, since the AIM-7E was such a piece of shit. There's a reason that the joke amongst Vietnam pilots was that the brevity code for a Sparrow launch was "Fox-1...Fuck!" as the missile separated from the aircraft and then failed to ignite the engine and plummeted into the Gulf of Tonkin :lol: .

A large amount of problems came out as pilot error. The Phantom pilots didn't get adequate training on AAM employment in a dogfight (it was focused on BVR), and as a result most missiles were launched while either the target or the parent aircraft were outside launch parameters. The AIM-4 was hit particularly hard by this because its launch parameters (max g, etc) was more strict than the AIM-9, becoming one of the big factors in the Falcon gaining its sterling reputation.

It's notable that after the Navy instituted the Top Gun training they massively improved their kill/loss ratio and missile hit rate, while the USAF (which didn't start Red Flag for many more years) continued to lag behind. It really goes to show how much of a difference proper training can do.

Vulcan 607 wrote:Also xeno if you read this saw a photo of a viper over Afghanistan why would it be carrying aim120s?

Eh, probably just in case. Could shoot down a drone or a trespassing plane.
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Vulcan 607 » Tue 10 Jan 2017 07:53

Xeno426 wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:Aww man if we're playing that game the US F-4J becomes outright the worst aircraft in game, since the AIM-7E was such a piece of shit. There's a reason that the joke amongst Vietnam pilots was that the brevity code for a Sparrow launch was "Fox-1...Fuck!" as the missile separated from the aircraft and then failed to ignite the engine and plummeted into the Gulf of Tonkin :lol: .

A large amount of problems came out as pilot error. The Phantom pilots didn't get adequate training on AAM employment in a dogfight (it was focused on BVR), and as a result most missiles were launched while either the target or the parent aircraft were outside launch parameters. The AIM-4 was hit particularly hard by this because its launch parameters (max g, etc) was more strict than the AIM-9, becoming one of the big factors in the Falcon gaining its sterling reputation.

It's notable that after the Navy instituted the Top Gun training they massively improved their kill/loss ratio and missile hit rate, while the USAF (which didn't start Red Flag for many more years) continued to lag behind. It really goes to show how much of a difference proper training can do.

Vulcan 607 wrote:Also xeno if you read this saw a photo of a viper over Afghanistan why would it be carrying aim120s?

Eh, probably just in case. Could shoot down a drone or a trespassing plane.


Thanks

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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby molnibalage » Tue 10 Jan 2017 12:29

Xeno426 wrote:
Yakhont wrote:I think R-60 can go to 50% accuracy on account of it short range and high agility IRL.

Because it's short range? Man, the AIM-4 must be hella accurate then.

Seriously, your logic makes no sense. The R-60 from the early 70's has the same capability of hitting as the AIM-9M from the mid 80's, or the R-73?

Those PbS seekers could be fooled by the sun or ground.

PbS seekers had 0 all aspect capability. No AAM with PbS seeker should have same range as later missile and none of them should have higher base ACC than 40%. Even with these values they are totally over modeled...

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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby hansbroger » Tue 10 Jan 2017 19:23

Broth3r wrote:So I just came across this picture.

Image

And I'm slightly obsessed with it.


With the F-15D(E) going over to CBU-87s I really want a Bombcat as well. It would be great for the role with less ECM but still decently survivable all the same. I think a Bombcat would be an elegant and useful reworking of the existing model while removing LRAM cancer and by extension the final existing raison d'être for the MiG-31/M that stubbornly refuse to go away.
Projectnordic in game! will likely see you on pact/red dragons/french!
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Xeno426 » Tue 10 Jan 2017 19:24

hansbroger wrote:With the F-15D(E) going over to CBU-87s I really want a Bombcat as well. It would be great for the role with less ECM but still decently survivable all the same. I think a Bombcat would be an elegant and useful reworking of the existing model while removing LRAM cancer and by extension the final existing raison d'être for the MiG-31/M that stubbornly refuse to go away.

Every single one of those points, excluding adding in the bombcat, are already part of my proposal.
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby hansbroger » Tue 10 Jan 2017 20:01

Xeno426 wrote:
hansbroger wrote:With the F-15D(E) going over to CBU-87s I really want a Bombcat as well. It would be great for the role with less ECM but still decently survivable all the same. I think a Bombcat would be an elegant and useful reworking of the existing model while removing LRAM cancer and by extension the final existing raison d'être for the MiG-31/M that stubbornly refuse to go away.

Every single one of those points, excluding adding in the bombcat, are already part of my proposal.


I agree, the ASF in your proposal probably has the most utility to the deck as a whole (plus it's top gun approved :D ) but there's just something about that Bombcat
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Partibrejker » Tue 10 Jan 2017 20:37

Image

I got an great idea, instead of classic dumb 1500kg bombs on Su24m, why not give a pair of this bad boys to Glorious Soviets, KAB 1500L, since it is actually included in su24m loadout and when you were adjusting Su24m you did mention that current loadout is a bit...unusual, and here you have glorious realism, plus it is a bit ludicrous that USSR does not use/have ingame any laser boom boom stuff.
Spoiler : :

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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Mike » Tue 10 Jan 2017 20:46

Partibrejker wrote:Image

I got an great idea, instead of classic dumb 1500kg bombs on Su24m, why not give a pair of this bad boys to Glorious Soviets, KAB 1500L, since it is actually included in su24m loadout and when you were adjusting Su24m you did mention that current loadout is a bit...unusual, and here you have glorious realism, plus it is a bit ludicrous that USSR does not use/have ingame any laser boom boom stuff.


Because it's fucking cancer? 4 2000lb LGBs on the F-1111F and F-15E sound kinda shitty, doesn't it?
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