Xeno's air tabs changes

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chykka
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby chykka » Wed 21 Dec 2016 06:09

Xeno426 wrote:
chykka wrote:With Zeno's proposed gun buff, it would be neat.

Oh come on, you know how my name is spelled. :P

Ahhh, my bad I know how your name is spelled. I do apologize no disrespect Xeno ^^ have no excuse for that typo it was even in your own thread,


The 4 LGB would be scary it would be like the F111G from the Navy except it would be like a land shark, potentially targeting two super heavies. Would be like F18 but probably unloads faster and maybe has less chance too miss :lol:
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Xeno426 » Wed 21 Dec 2016 06:55

chykka wrote:The 4 LGB would be scary it would be like the F111G from the Navy except it would be like a land shark, potentially targeting two super heavies. Would be like F18 but probably unloads faster and maybe has less chance too miss :lol:

Four LGBs? Where?
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Xeno426 » Wed 21 Dec 2016 06:57

Oh, and here's all the changes needed to fix the cannons in the game, now with Finland and Yugoslavia!

So, cannon fixes (hoo boy).
Spoiler : USSR :
Il-102
Cannons: Main cannon should be 9A-4071K, not GSh-2-30. They're similar, but the 9A-4071K is on a gun carriage on the bottom with the ability to change its barrel elevation.
Rounds: Main gun should have 500 rounds, rear should have 60.

MiG-21SMT
Cannons: SMT is one of the few MiG-21s that would actually be using the GP-9 gun pod. It should have a GSh-23L.
Rounds: Cannon should have 200 rounds.


Spoiler : DDR :
MiG-17PF
Cannon: The PF upgrade removed the N-37 and replaced it with another NR-23. Should be Triple NR-23.
Rounds: More NR-23 rounds were added, so total rounds should be 300 (100 per gun).

MiG-21bis Lazur
Rounds: Cannon should have 200 rounds, not 250.

MiG-23BN
Rounds: Cannon should have 200 rounds, not 250.

MiG-23ML
Rounds: Cannon should have 200, not 250.

Su-22M4
Cannon: Should be twin NR-30 rather than NR-23.

Su-22M4P
Cannon: Should be twin NR-30 rather than NR-23.


Spoiler : Poland :
MiG-21bis
Rounds: Should be 200, not 250 rounds.

MiG-21MF
Rounds: Should be 200, not 250 rounds.

Su-22M4
Cannon: Should be twin NR-30 rather than NR-23.

Su-22M4 Seria 30
Cannon: Should be twin NR-30 rather than NR-23.

Su-22M4P
Cannon: Should be twin NR-30 rather than NR-23.

Su-7B
Cannon: Should be twin NR-30 rather than NR-23.
Rounds: Cannons should have 140 rounds (70 per gun).

Su-7BM
Cannon: Should be twin NR-30 rather than NR-23.
Rounds: Cannons should have 140 rounds (70 per gun).

Su-7BKL
Cannon: Should be twin NR-30 rather than NR-23.
Rounds: Cannons should have 140 rounds (70 per gun).


Spoiler : CSSR :
Avia S-105
Cannon: Cannon should be a triple NR-30 group rather than a single NR-30.
Rounds: Total rounds should be 195, 70 for the two wing guns and 55 for the nose gun, rather than 205.

MiG-21MF-75
Rounds: Should be 200 rather than 250 rounds.

MiG-23ML
Rounds: Should be 200 rather than 250 rounds.

Su-22M4
Cannon: Should be twin NR-30 rather than NR-23.

Su-7B
Cannon: Should be twin NR-30 rather than NR-23.
Rounds: Cannons should have 140 rounds (70 per gun).


Spoiler : China :
J-5
Cannon: Double NR-23 should be replaced with double Type 23-1 and the N-37 should be the Type 37, their Chinese copies.

J-7C
Cannon: Should use the Type 23-III, a copy of the GSh-23L.

J-7H
Cannon: Should be twin Type 30-1, a copy of the NR-30, rather than GSh-23L.
Rounds: Total rounds should be 120 (60 per gun) rather than 200.

J-7II
Cannon: Should be twin Type 30-1, a copy of the NR-30, rather than GSh-23L.
Rounds: Total rounds should be 120 (60 per gun) rather than 200.

J-7IIM
Cannon: Should be twin Type 30-1, a copy of the NR-30, rather than GSh-23L.
Rounds: Total rounds should be 120 (60 per gun) rather than 200.

J-8IIB
Cannon: Should use the Type 23-III, a copy of the GSh-23L, rather than "Twin Type 23".
Rounds: Should be 200, not 250.

J-8C
Cannon: Should use the Type 23-III, a copy of the GSh-23L, rather than "Twin Type 23".
Rounds: Should be 200, not 250.

Q-5I
Cannon: Should be twin Type 23-II, a copy of the AM-23, rather than the NR-30. This gun is rather like the NR-23, but faster firing.
Rounds: Total rounds should be 200 (100 per gun) rather than 205.

Q-5IA
Cannon: Should be twin Type 23-II, a copy of the AM-23, rather than the NR-30. This gun is rather like the NR-23, but faster firing.
Rounds: Total rounds should be 200 (100 per gun) rather than 205.

Q-5D
Cannon: Should be twin Type 23-II, a copy of the AM-23, rather than the NR-30. This gun is rather like the NR-23, but faster firing.
Rounds: Total rounds should be 200 (100 per gun) rather than 205.


Spoiler : DPRK :
A-5I
Cannon: Should be twin Type 23-II, a copy of the AM-23, rather than the NR-30. This gun is rather like the NR-23, but faster firing.
Rounds: Total rounds should be 200 (100 per gun) rather than 205.

B-5
Cannon: Should be twin Type 23-II, since there are two guns.
Rounds: Total rounds should be 450 (225 per gun).

F-5
Cannon: NR-23 should be replaced with twin Type 23-1 and the N-37 should be the Type 37, their Chinese copies.

F-5B
Cannon: All cannons should be replaced by triple Type 23-1 cannons (the N-37 was replaced with an NR-23).
Rounds: Total rounds should be 300 (100 per gun) for the triple Type 23-1.

F-6C
Cannon: Should be triple Type 30-1, a copy of the NR-30.
Rounds: Total rounds should be 195, 70 for the two wing guns and 55 for the nose gun, rather than 205.

F-7B
Cannon: Should be twin Type 30-1, a copy of the NR-30, rather than GSh-23L.
Rounds: Total rounds should be 120 (60 per gun) rather than 200.

MiG-21bis
Rounds: Cannon should have 200 rounds.

MiG-23ML
Rounds: Cannon should have 200 rounds, not 250.

Su-7BMK
Cannon: Should be twin NR-30 rather than NR-23.
Rounds: Cannons should have 140 rounds (70 per gun).


Spoiler : USA :
A-4M
Rounds: Cannon should have 400 rounds (200 per gun) rather than 200.

AV-8A
Rounds: Total rounds should be 250 rounds, 125 per gun.

AV-8C
Rounds: Total rounds should be 250 rounds, 125 per gun.

AV-8B
Rounds: Cannon should have only 300 rounds, not 1170. This is the GAU-12/U Equalizer, not the bloody GAU-8/A Avenger.

F-14
Rounds: Should be 675 rather than 752.

F-15E
Rounds: Should be 510, not 940.

F-16A
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-16C
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-16C Block 52
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F/A-18A
Rounds: Total rounds should be 578 rather than 564.

F/A-18C
Rounds: Total rounds should be 578 rather than 564.


Spoiler : UK :
Eurofighter Typhoon
Rounds: Cannon should have 150 rounds rather than 180.

Harrier GR.1
Rounds: Total rounds should be 250 rounds, 125 per gun.

Harrier GR.3
Rounds: Total rounds should be 250 rounds, 125 per gun.

Harrier GR.5
Cannon: Should be twin ADEN 30 cannons.
Rounds: Total rounds should be 250 rounds, 125 per gun.

Harrier GR.7
Rounds: Total rounds should be 250 rounds, 125 per gun.

Jaguar GR.1
Rounds: Cannons should have a total of 300 rounds, 150 rounds per gun.

Jaguar GR.1A
Rounds: Cannons should have a total of 300 rounds, 150 rounds per gun.

Sea Harrier FA.2
Rounds: Total rounds should be 250 rounds, 125 per gun.

Sea Harrier FRS.1
Rounds: Total rounds should be 250 rounds, 125 per gun.


Spoiler : France :
Etendard IVM
Rounds: There should be 150 rounds per gun, for a total of 300 rounds.

Super Etendard
Cannon: When using the ATLIS pod to guide the AS.30L, the cannon could not be used. Thus it should be removed from the aircraft.
Rounds: Zero rounds should be available due to limits put in place by the ATLIS pod.

F-8E(FN)
Rounds: Each gun had 125 rounds, and with four guns there should be 500 rounds total.

Jaguar A
Rounds: Cannons should have a total of 300 rounds, 150 rounds per gun.

Mirage F1C
Rounds: Cannons have 135 rounds per gun, for a total number of rounds of 270.

Mirage F1C-200
Rounds: Cannons have 135 rounds per gun, for a total number of rounds of 270.

Mirage F1CT
Rounds: Cannons have 135 rounds per gun, for a total number of rounds of 270.

Mirage IIIC
Rounds: Total rounds should be 250, 125 rounds per gun.

Mirage 5F
Rounds: Cannons have 135 rounds per gun, for a total number of rounds of 270.

Rafale C F1
Rounds: Cannon should have 150 rounds.


Spoiler : FRG :
F-4F
Rounds: Should be 640 rounds, not 564.

F-4F KWS
Rounds: Should be 640 rounds, not 564.

F-4F Peace Rhine
Rounds: Should be 640 rounds, not 564.


Spoiler : Canada :
CF-104
Rounds: Total ammo should be 725, not 940.

CF-116
Rounds: Each gun had 280 rounds, so the total should be 560.

CF-18
Rounds: Total rounds should be 578 rather than 564.

CF-188
Rounds: Total rounds should be 578 rather than 564.


Spoiler : Denmark :
F-100D
Rounds: Total cannon rounds came to 1200, 300 per gun.

F-16A Block 5
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-16A Block 15
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-16A MLU
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

Starfighter
Rounds: Total ammo should be 725, not 940.

CF-104
Rounds: Total ammo should be 725, not 940.


Spoiler : Sweden :
A 32A
Rounds: War load was 80 rounds per gun, for a total of 320.

JA 37
Cannon: Should be Oerlikon KCA rather than ADEN; the cannon fires a much heavier 30mm round than the ADEN 30.
Rounds: Total rounds should be 150, not 156.


Spoiler : Norway :
F-104G
Rounds: Total ammo should be 725, not 940.

CF-104
Rounds: Total ammo should be 725, not 940.

F-16A
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-16AM
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-5A
Rounds: Each gun had 280 rounds, so the total should be 560.

F-5A PUFF
Rounds: Each gun had 280 rounds, so the total should be 560.


Spoiler : ANZAC :
F-4E
Rounds: Should be 640 rounds, not 940.

F/A-18A
Rounds: Total rounds should be 578 rather than 564.

Mirage IIIO(F)
Rounds: Total rounds should be 250, 125 rounds per gun.

Mirage IIIO(A)
Rounds: Total rounds should be 250, 125 rounds per gun.


Spoiler : Japan :
F-1
Rounds: Cannon should have a total of 750 rounds, not 940.

F-104J
Rounds: Total ammo should be 725, not 940.

F-4EJ
Rounds: Should be 640 rounds, not 940.

F-4EJ Kai
Rounds: Should be 640 rounds, not 940.

F-86F
Cannon: Should be six AN/M3, which fire much faster than the M2 (450-600 for M2, 1200-1300 for AN/M3).
Rounds: Each gun had 267 rounds, for a total of 1602 rounds.


Spoiler : ROK :
F-16C Peace Bridge
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

KF-16C
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

KF-16C Block 52D
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-4E Peace Pheasant II
Rounds: Should be 640 rounds, not 940.

F-5A
Rounds: Each gun had 280 rounds, so the total should be 560.

KF-5E
Rounds: Each gun had 280 rounds, so the total should be 560.

F-86F
Cannon: Should be six AN/M3, which fire much faster than the M2 (450-600 for M2, 1200-1300 for AN/M3).
Rounds: Each gun had 267 rounds, for a total of 1602 rounds.


Spoiler : Netherlands :
F-104G
Rounds: Total ammo should be 725, not 940.

F-16A Block I
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-16A MLU
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-16A Block 5
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-16A Block 10
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-16A Block 15OCU
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-84F
Cannon: Should be six AN/M3, which fire much faster than the M2 (450-600 for M2, 1200-1300 for AN/M3).
Rounds: Each gun had 300 rounds, for a total of 1800 rounds.

NF-5A
Rounds: Each gun had 280 rounds, so the total should be 560.

NF-5B
Cannon: The F-5B (and NF-5B) were not fitted with any cannons.


Spoiler : Israel :
Ayit
Rounds: The DEFA cannons had 150 rounds each, for a total of 300 rounds.

Kurnass 2000
Rounds: Should be 640 rounds, not 940.

Kurnass
Rounds: Should be 640 rounds, not 940.

Ra'am
Rounds: Should be 510, not 940.

Netz
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

Barak
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

Barak II
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

Sharak
Rounds: Total rounds should be 250, 125 rounds per gun.

Nesher A
Rounds: Total rounds should be 250, 125 rounds per gun.

Kfir C.2
Rounds: Total rounds should be 280, 140 rounds per gun.

Kfir C.7
Rounds: Total rounds should be 280, 140 rounds per gun.


Spoiler : Finland :
Avia 28
Cannon: Should be twin NR-23 instead of GSh-23L.
Rounds: Should be a total of 450 rounds (225 per gun) instead of 400.

J 35S
Cannon: Should be twin Aden 30s rather than one.
Rounds: Should have a total of 200 rounds (100 per gun) rather than 100.

MiG-21F-13
Cannon: Should be a single NR-30 rather than a GSh-23L.
Rounds: Should be 30 rounds for the cannon rather than 400.

MiG-21bis
Rounds: Should be 200 rather than 500.

F-18C
Rounds: Total rounds should be 578 rather than 910.


Spoiler : Yugoslavia :
J-22 Orao
Rounds: Should have 200 rounds per gun, for a total of 400.

J-22B Orao 2
Rounds: Should have 200 rounds per gun, for a total of 400.

J-21
Cannon: Weapon should be Triple AN/M3 rather than just an M2 Browning.
Rounds: Each gun had 135 rounds, so total should be 405 rounds.

L-12
Rounds: Should only be 30 rounds.

L-17K
Rounds: Should only be 200 rounds, not 500.

L-15M
Rounds: Should only be 200 rounds, not 500.


This isn't even touching the weirdness of some aircraft having a better version of the same gun for no reason (not even FCS system reasons). The DDR GSh-23Ls being different from everyone else's is one example.
Last edited by Xeno426 on Wed 21 Dec 2016 19:14, edited 2 times in total.
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chykka
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby chykka » Wed 21 Dec 2016 07:51

The F111c Has the Pave Track system and could use GBU 10 that was mentioned by Darkmil on the F-111F.

Spoiler : :
The
Cannon:NR-30 rather than NR-23.


For many planes having this gun be it one or more would be nicer expecially for the planes carrying more than one and having a larger caliber round.

China's guns seem to be a mess as they have a lot as 'placeholders'

Most of Nato's changes are on ammunition count , many are buffs while notably dialing back all the Vulcans, with a few that would require bigger changes.

Super Etendard
Cannon: When using the ATLIS pod to guide the AS.30L, the cannon could not be used. Thus it should be removed from the aircraft.

JA 37
Oerlikon KCA rather than ADEN;

F-84F
Cannon: Should be six AN/M3,

NF-5B
Cannon: The F-5B (and NF-5B) were not fitted with any cannons.


The MiG 21 s that are armed with NR-30 could only carry 30 rounds, I actually really like this change.
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby another505 » Wed 21 Dec 2016 08:05

MiG-29 9.13
Name: MiG-29 9.13S
Loadout: 150xGSh-301, 2xR-77 -> 150xGSh-301, 2xR-77, 2xS-24B
Turn: 300 -> 350
Explanation: Gives this aircraft a bit more dual-use.


I have to say, its really useless. 2 S-24B are really useless, even the polish Mig-21 with 4 S-24B shows it. Limited amount of rockets, rng screws it, even all hits, the variety of targets it can kill are limited. A bunch of small rockets like S-5 are more reliable and have higher HE output. And also rockets having unified range on planes does give the short end of the stick to large caliber ones.

At best this would be kill infantry and 0av units. Just make it a bomber, 2 R-77 and 4 FAB 500 for both finland and poland's sake
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby FrangibleCover » Wed 21 Dec 2016 11:31

Xeno426 wrote:Poland

Su-22M4

Cannon: Should be NR-30 rather than NR-23.

[Every other Fitter]
Cannon: Should be twin NR-30 rather than NR-23.

Is this a typo or were the Polish Su-22M4s unable to use one gun with their current load in game?
What if Wargame stuck to timeframe?
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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby HrcAk47 » Wed 21 Dec 2016 14:39

Fully support Yugo (and all other) cannon tweaks. I reported them myself, so maybe they get fixed in the patch. You can also add that N-62 Super Galeb should not have a gun at all.


One question, and I think this is the appropriate thread for this.

How about accuracy, ranges, ROFs, etc. get "standardized" by gun type (i.e. all GSh-23Ls function the same)? Right now, there are wild differences all around, but I believe you noticed.

Could you write stats for plane guns?
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

SMB Yugoslavia Retexture Mod, now released, v.1.0

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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Sir Typhoon » Wed 21 Dec 2016 14:51

Xeno426 wrote:F-15E
Rounds: Should be 510, not 940.

F-16A
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-16C
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-16C Block 52
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.


This mean a buff price for these planes of -5 points :D?

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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby Razzmann » Wed 21 Dec 2016 15:17

No....?

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Re: Xeno's air tabs changes

Postby urogard » Wed 21 Dec 2016 15:24

Sir Typhoon wrote:
Xeno426 wrote:F-15E
Rounds: Should be 510, not 940.

F-16A
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-16C
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.

F-16C Block 52
Rounds: Total rounds should be 511 rather than 940.


This mean a buff price for these planes of -5 points :D?

Guns on planes have a value of ZERO as proven in

viewtopic.php?f=155&t=58970 (search "cannon cost")

It even goes as far as saying that even if you'd remove the vulcan cannons completely you'd not see any price change whatsoever

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