Tzefa E and W-3W Sokol

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Zero_Ecm
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Tzefa E and W-3W Sokol

Postby Zero_Ecm » Fri 18 Nov 2016 20:14

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If we talking about another stats, so:
Sokol
Better Autonomy
Better Optic
No proto tag

Tzefa

Better Speed
Useful rotaiting gun
More rokets with same HE


So i suggest
1) 5 pts buff to sokol, or
2) Sokol should use Grom (add proto tag, of course), cause Polland nether used igla, or
3) 5 pts nerf to Tzefa

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integ3r
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Re: Tzefa E and W-3W Sokol

Postby integ3r » Fri 18 Nov 2016 20:31

5 HE >>>>> 4 HE.

It's the difference between 2 shotting and 3 shotting a plane.

So 2 igla squads will not kill a plane, in fact you need to invest 45 as opposed to 40 pts for stinger to kill a plane with them... and with the lacking accuracy and insignificant range advantage over stinger in vs plane department, I see no reason to change iglas or buff stinger.

As for the helis... Why nitpick on this?
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delor
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Re: Tzefa E and W-3W Sokol

Postby delor » Fri 18 Nov 2016 20:50

4 HE on a REDFOR AA helicopter isn't bad, at least if you're doing lobbies where it's 99% Confrontation. You won't be shooting down planes with it, but it'll still two-shot basically any helicopter you're likely to encounter, same as HE 5, and you get the first shot off due to the Stinger's poor range.

Usually when this sort of thread with REDFOR AA missiles versus Stingers comes up, I find myself saying "I like the unit you're saying is UP better, because I prioritize anti-heli capability on INF and HEL units."

In this case, though, the Tzefa does have a bunch of other advantages to help make up. It's got a much more useful gun, almost twice the rockets, and the extra accuracy of the Stinger C goes a long way towards evening out the heli-vs-heli scenario. (as opposed to the Stinger A in similar debates like SAS vs LSTR) So, I do agree it's the better helicopter here.
Last edited by delor on Fri 18 Nov 2016 20:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tzefa E and W-3W Sokol

Postby DoubleDown » Fri 18 Nov 2016 20:50

integ3r wrote:5 HE >>>>> 4 HE.

It's the difference between 2 shotting and 3 shotting a plane.

So 2 igla squads will not kill a plane, in fact you need to invest 45 as opposed to 40 pts for stinger to kill a plane with them... and with the lacking accuracy and insignificant range advantage over stinger in vs plane department, I see no reason to change iglas or buff stinger.

As for the helis... Why nitpick on this?

I think you've got it backwards. He's saying that since the Stinger is better, and is correspondingly more pricey in its infantry iteration, there is no reason that the Sokol should cost the same as the Tzefa since it's packing the worse missile.

It's an argument for a Sokol buff, not a Stinger/Igla debate
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Eukie
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Re: Tzefa E and W-3W Sokol

Postby Eukie » Fri 18 Nov 2016 20:55

Price comparisons are a naive form of analysis because they ignore opportunity costs and asymmetric balance. Just pointing out that two units have different stats but the same price doesn't tell you whether one of those units confers a disproportionate advantage to one side in a battle.

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morpher
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Re: Tzefa E and W-3W Sokol

Postby morpher » Fri 18 Nov 2016 21:07

Eukie wrote:Price comparisons are a naive form of analysis because they ignore opportunity costs


Oh dear, It seems I am not the only one after all.

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Re: Tzefa E and W-3W Sokol

Postby delor » Fri 18 Nov 2016 21:13

A true statement, but completely insubstantial unless contextualized within the current discussion.

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Re: Tzefa E and W-3W Sokol

Postby nande » Fri 18 Nov 2016 21:20

Eukie wrote:disproportionate advantage
Eukie wrote:opportunity costs
who's to judge these things

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morpher
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Re: Tzefa E and W-3W Sokol

Postby morpher » Fri 18 Nov 2016 21:23

nande wrote:
Eukie wrote:disproportionate advantage
Eukie wrote:opportunity costs
who's to judge these things


The dude with access to the wargame git repo.

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morpher
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Re: Tzefa E and W-3W Sokol

Postby morpher » Fri 18 Nov 2016 21:30

Btw I'd like a price nerf to the Tzefa E.

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