Why no Malyutka (Infantry) Teams?

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Why no Malyutka (Infantry) Teams?

Postby jhfts » Sat 26 Nov 2016 05:08

Please forgive me if there's a simple answer for this, but I've wondered this since RD came out, and I'd thought that I'd finally ask...

Why aren't there any Malyutka ATGM teams in the game?

The Malyutka is well-known, if little-used, in Wargame due to its presence on BMP-1s and the BRDM-2 tank destroyers. But the real-life Malyutka was very much a man-portable weapon too; small infantry teams could carry it into combat in a (rather oversized) plastic case.

The lack of Malyutka infantry teams plays out rather oddly for some REDFOR factions. China is without infantry ATGMs, despite the fact that it had the baseline HJ-73 (Malyutka copy) by the early 80's, and SACLOS versions by the early 90's. And now, it seem that we're getting Yugoslavia with Fagot teams, based on a tiny one-off arms order, instead of the much more prolific Malyutka.

By the end of the 1980's, the Malyutka was certainly old, but it had it's uses. It had better range than the Fagot (if longer minimum range too), and later versions had SACLOS guidance and a decent warhead. If we have T-34 and Shermans running about the battlefield, the Malyutka certainly doesn't seem out of place.

So, why no Malyutka infantry? DId the devs forbid it at some point? If so, why?

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Re: Why no Malyutka (Infantry) Teams?

Postby Mike » Sat 26 Nov 2016 05:17

How much does a missle + tripod + whatever else is needed weigh?

Also inb4 doesn't matter for Nordic strongmen.
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Re: Why no Malyutka (Infantry) Teams?

Postby Sgt._Pepper » Sat 26 Nov 2016 05:19

There are no "briefcase missiles" for infantry in the game(Malyutka, Cobra, etc). I think this has something to do with engine limitations, maybe it would need special animations or something. Thus none of them are in game.

For China the HJ-8 would also be a possibility, but we didn't get it because of... weight or something? I think that's the reason.
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Re: Why no Malyutka (Infantry) Teams?

Postby Sgt._Pepper » Sat 26 Nov 2016 05:26

Mike wrote:How much does a missle + tripod + whatever else is needed weigh?

Also inb4 doesn't matter for Nordic strongmen.


The weight on the most powerful variants is only 12,5 kg, there is no tripod. To launch the missile a launcher that looks like a suitcase is needed, but given its proportions I doubt that it weighs much, I can't find its weight though.

I think the problem is rather that the Malyutka has a setup time to prepare the suitcase and to take the missile(stored in another suitcase) and place it on the launcher and everything.
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Re: Why no Malyutka (Infantry) Teams?

Postby codextero » Sat 26 Nov 2016 05:36

Nobody wants to use them, especially when the cheapest transport is 5 points.

ATGM dragon teams was a thing in WG:EE. They sucked, and were not brought back for WG:ALB.

Malyutka teams would fall under the same bracket. Theres no reason you would want to use them when Fagot teams are considerably more effective for 5 points more. The cheapest you could bring a Malyutka team for is 10 points, which is too much for a Malyutka.

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Re: Why no Malyutka (Infantry) Teams?

Postby R3d Sh4mbala » Sat 26 Nov 2016 06:19

Probably the bigger question is the fact that the Fagot [Fakytoria] missile system replaced the Malytuka on almost all Soviet sphere systems by probably 1980?

So why are my BMP-1 still armed with Malytuka, when a Fagot [Fakytoria] would do fine as an upgrade

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Re: Why no Malyutka (Infantry) Teams?

Postby jhfts » Sat 26 Nov 2016 06:57

Mike wrote:How much does a missle + tripod + whatever else is needed weigh?


Both NVA troops in the Vietnam War and Egyptian troops in 1973 manhandled these things around in the field; I doubt that the weight was unmanageable.

Sgt._Pepper wrote:There are no "briefcase missiles" for infantry in the game(Malyutka, Cobra, etc). I think this has something to do with engine limitations, maybe it would need special animations or something. Thus none of them are in game.


Are there even proper firing animations for ATGM crews? I was under the impression that the missile just 'appeared' when they fired, without the launcher being deployed. If we simply had one of the guys running around with the suitcase, and the missile 'popping into existence' in the same sort of way, I don't expect many people would mind.

codextero wrote:Nobody wants to use them, especially when the cheapest transport is 5 points

...

Malyutka teams would fall under the same bracket. Theres no reason you would want to use them when Fagot teams are considerably more effective for 5 points more. The cheapest you could bring a Malyutka team for is 10 points, which is too much for a Malyutka.


'Stock' Malyutkas would not, I agree, be very competitive. But improved variants with SACLOS guidance were available by the late 80's / early 90's. Yugoslavia / Serbia apparently produced an improved version with a tandem warhead, though I don't have any entry date information. The Soviet 9M14-2 (~1992) was supposed to have had something on the order of 750-800 mm penetration. Even the Chinese HJ-73B could plausibly have stats on par with the MILAN 1, which is still a big step up from no ATGM team at all.

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Re: Why no Malyutka (Infantry) Teams?

Postby Killertomato » Sat 26 Nov 2016 07:16

R3d Sh4mbala wrote:Probably the bigger question is the fact that the Fagot [Fakytoria] missile system replaced the Malytuka on almost all Soviet sphere systems by probably 1980?

So why are my BMP-1 still armed with Malytuka, when a Fagot [Fakytoria] would do fine as an upgrade


Because the BMP-1s are left over from EE, which started in 1975.
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Re: Why no Malyutka (Infantry) Teams?

Postby another505 » Sat 26 Nov 2016 07:35

R3d Sh4mbala wrote:Probably the bigger question is the fact that the Fagot [Fakytoria] missile system replaced the Malytuka on almost all Soviet sphere systems by probably 1980?

So why are my BMP-1 still armed with Malytuka, when a Fagot [Fakytoria] would do fine as an upgrade

would be nice, since they are charging the malytuka, at least make it worth 5 pts, fagot is somewhat alright
add that on the BMD-1 too. None of them need a price nerf.


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Re: Why no Malyutka (Infantry) Teams?

Postby codextero » Sat 26 Nov 2016 08:49

jhfts wrote:
Are there even proper firing animations for ATGM crews? I was under the impression that the missile just 'appeared' when they fired, without the launcher being deployed. If we simply had one of the guys running around with the suitcase, and the missile 'popping into existence' in the same sort of way, I don't expect many people would mind.


nope, they just put the tube over their shoulder and shoot them like bazookas.

So does the SWARJE ubermensch in the Norrlandsjagare who shoulder fires a 110 kilo PVPJ 1110 while running at 30 kph.

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