The RPG-7 is under-modeled. RPG-7 STRONK

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Mako
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The RPG-7 is under-modeled. RPG-7 STRONK

Postby Mako » Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:04

For some reason, the RPG-7 is using obsolete ammunition and making its performance far worse than it should be compared to other light AT weapons.

Actual RPG-7 ammunition:

(Standard effective range is roughly 500m)

PG-7V: 260mm of penetration, 83mm from 1962.

PG-7VM with 300mm of penetration and much increased accuracy, 70mm from 1969

PG-7VS with 400mm of penetration, 70mm from 1972/1973

PG-7VS1 with 360mm of penetration from 1975 (cheaper version of PG-7VS)

PG-7VL with 500mm of penetration, 93mm from 1977 (range reduced to 300m)

PG-7VR with 600mm of penetration after ERA, 600-700mm of penetration without ERA, from 1988, 65 and 105mm (range reduced to 200m)


With an AP of 14 for the RPG-7 and 17 for the RPG-7V, the weapons appear to be using the PG-7V and PG-7M or perhaps the PG-7M and the PG-7S1 ammunition respectively.

These rounds are from 1962 and 1969 or 1969 and 1975(?)

Category C is 1980.

There exist three more modern and effective rounds designed before then, which bizarely are not ingame.

Furthermore, some units like Morskay Pekhota '90 are still using a round from 1969 or a worse version of a better earlier round in 1990;


For reference, 400mm of penetration equates to 18 AP on infantry launchers. (This is what the Carl Gustav M2 penetrates with its M551 HEAT round.)

The 18 AP 400mm PG-7VS came out in 1972/1973. (the VS1 came out a few years later as a cheaper version, it would have 17 or 16 AP)

http://arsenal-info.ru/img/1187693005/pic_66.jpg

Therefore, one could argue that every single RPG-7 unit should have 16 AP at minimum.

Many, should have significantly more.

The PG-7VL came out in the later seventies to counter the NATO proliferation of modern MBTs, it used a large warhead which decreased the range to 300m (525m in game) but increased penetration to at least 500mm.

http://arsenal-info.ru/img/1187693005/pic_68.jpg

This would be 20-21 AP in game.

(it gets oddly compressed after 425mm which is 19 AP, and then 700mm (non tandem) which is 22 AP, switching from 25mm per AP as from 300mm at 14 AP -through 19 AP at 425mm to something else)


-------------------------


TL;DR: RPG-7s should all have more penetration.

Right now they're really mediocre, they could be better without warranting a price increase.
Last edited by Mako on Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The RPG-7 is under-modeled. RPG-7 STRONK

Postby Guggy » Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:06

This one's up to Morpher.

What say you, Morpher?

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Last edited by Guggy on Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The RPG-7 is under-modeled. RPG-7 STRONK

Postby Mako » Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:07

Guggy wrote:This one's up to Morpher.

What say you, Morpher?


They couldn't afford RPGs in peace time, how could they afford them in combat?
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Re: The RPG-7 is under-modeled. RPG-7 STRONK

Postby morpher » Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:07

It is tricky.

If you raise the AP of those units you raise the price. Do you really think the ussr deck requires more expensive infantry?

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Re: The RPG-7 is under-modeled. RPG-7 STRONK

Postby Guggy » Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:08

You both make good points. Have you considered using S-24 engines to boost the RPG's?

Agreed with Mako regarding pen btw.
Last edited by Guggy on Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The RPG-7 is under-modeled. RPG-7 STRONK

Postby QUAD » Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:09

morpher wrote:It is tricky.

If you raise the AP of those units you raise the price. Do you really think the ussr deck requires more expensive infantry?


or just nerf PKM.
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Re: The RPG-7 is under-modeled. RPG-7 STRONK

Postby morpher » Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:09

As I proposed almost a year ago, buffing base vdv AP to 16 would give the deck a bit of low-tier cost efficiency.

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Re: The RPG-7 is under-modeled. RPG-7 STRONK

Postby HrcAk47 » Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:10

As far as I noticed, price nerf comes into play only if you touch 16AP WHILE having a chainsaw MG (hello Jaegers).

PKM is no chainsaw. ;)
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: The RPG-7 is under-modeled. RPG-7 STRONK

Postby Mako » Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:11

morpher wrote:It is tricky.

If you raise the AP of those units you raise the price. Do you really think the ussr deck requires more expensive infantry?


The RPG-7 going from 14 to 16 AP would not increase the price though.

Jager for example, with an amazing MG and 16 AP launcher are only 15.

A good 1975 launcher is not worth 5 pts alone.


Similarly, Morskaya Pekhota 90 having a 10 rpm low accuracy short ranged 20 AP launcher would not increase their price.

morpher wrote:As I proposed almost a year ago, buffing base vdv AP to 16 would give the deck a bit of low-tier cost efficiency.



It might, but it's not remotely justifiable with 300mm of penetration.

Interestingly, with the longest range by 100m of all the non long recoilless rifle launchers you could argue for a range increase for the RPG-16D. It's sitting at 800m vs the Carl Gustav's 700m.
Last edited by Mako on Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The RPG-7 is under-modeled. RPG-7 STRONK

Postby HrcAk47 » Mon 28 Nov 2016 02:12

Guggy wrote:You both make good points. Have you considered using S-24 engines to boost the RPG's?

Agreed with Mako regarding pen btw.


Why the salt, Guggy? :3
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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