M-84AN Recon Tank

Pleb Squasher
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M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby Pleb Squasher » Sat 3 Dec 2016 15:17

Holy shit I love this thing, it makes me so happy that an armoured deck finally gets a punchy recon option to make up for having shit slow/awkward recon tabs. Even the lighter recon tanks armoured get just aren't survivable enough sometimes, this tank fills a nice niche.

It is grossly op however, due to two reasons.
1. This unit should not have stealth, in fact I don't think there is any sensible or realistic reason for it to have any stealth value. The unit is a tank and is not stealthy, giving such a strong gun platform which is also armoured, stealth is really stupid. Stealth should be entirely removed. There's no reason at all to give this unit stealth, not even on the basis that all recon vehicles get medium stealth (which is not a good rule). This really needs a fix. Removing stealth doesn't really change the unit function either, you just can;t sit it on the edge of forests so safely which is fair enough, it's a bloody tank.
2. Why on earth does this tank only cost 5 more points than the non-recon variant, yet it gains very good optics (which are worth a lot more than 5 pts) and also the stealth.

Honestly this tank is so good, it's a good thing you only get 1 card, so 4 units max so this can't just be thrown all across your front line (Unlike Maglan with their entirely senseless and unjustified 2 cards, please nerf).

On a side note, this unit also shouldn't be available to motorised decks. There's no good reason any deck but armoured should have access as this is a pretty niche unit. Motorised doesn't deserve this thing, just like armoured decks don't get any wheeled options, motorised shouldn't get any heavy/special tank options.
Last edited by Pleb Squasher on Sat 3 Dec 2016 15:43, edited 2 times in total.

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HrcAk47
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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby HrcAk47 » Sat 3 Dec 2016 15:33

Glad you like it.

It will get a substantial price nerf soonish, likely removed from Moto, and can be given to Mech as an option.

As for the stealth mechanic, it is quite OP, I agree, but stealth removal should come for all recon tanks simultaneously.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby Pleb Squasher » Sat 3 Dec 2016 15:41

HrcAk47 wrote:Glad you like it.

It will get a substantial price nerf soonish, likely removed from Moto, and can be given to Mech as an option.

As for the stealth mechanic, it is quite OP, I agree, but stealth removal should come for all recon tanks simultaneously.


Stealth removal for generic recon tanks should happen, but first the underpowered one's should be buffed up a tad, namely the T-55 recon variants which are garbage. They could just use decent acc buffs to bring them into line with opposition before they lose their stealth.
Some recon 'tanks' should keep their stealth, like the Chinese one. I also believe recon Bradley's should have reduced stealth but they're not well armoured so they're not that bad.

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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby eR_Spectre » Sat 3 Dec 2016 15:45

All recon tanks have medium stealth so I see no balance issue here, although I agree from realism point of view it is a bit strange.

I fully agree about the price, I should be increased by +10 pts atleast, more likely by +15 or +20.

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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby Partibrejker » Sat 3 Dec 2016 16:09

eR_Spectre wrote:All recon tanks have medium stealth so I see no balance issue here, although I agree from realism point of view it is a bit strange.

I fully agree about the price, I should be increased by +10 pts atleast, more likely by +15 or +20.


I agree for the 1st part and for the 2nd part, if it needs to be increased I would go for 10 points max, because 15 or 20 would be too much, since for that money (120) it is better to save to like ~150 points and get vihor and infantry scouts to follow them :)
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HrcAk47
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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby HrcAk47 » Sat 3 Dec 2016 16:11

Pleb Squasher wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:Glad you like it.

It will get a substantial price nerf soonish, likely removed from Moto, and can be given to Mech as an option.

As for the stealth mechanic, it is quite OP, I agree, but stealth removal should come for all recon tanks simultaneously.


Stealth removal for generic recon tanks should happen, but first the underpowered one's should be buffed up a tad, namely the T-55 recon variants which are garbage. They could just use decent acc buffs to bring them into line with opposition before they lose their stealth.
Some recon 'tanks' should keep their stealth, like the Chinese one. I also believe recon Bradley's should have reduced stealth but they're not well armoured so they're not that bad.


Chief issue of T-55 recons is that their platform (base T-55) is garbage. Really hard to buff them.

I have another neat idea - making the CV tanks (and vehicles) come with recon optics. Explanation is - local commander sees something and can transmit it to high command and all local units. Some do come with it already.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby FrangibleCover » Sat 3 Dec 2016 16:33

HrcAk47 wrote:
Pleb Squasher wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:Glad you like it.

It will get a substantial price nerf soonish, likely removed from Moto, and can be given to Mech as an option.

As for the stealth mechanic, it is quite OP, I agree, but stealth removal should come for all recon tanks simultaneously.


Stealth removal for generic recon tanks should happen, but first the underpowered one's should be buffed up a tad, namely the T-55 recon variants which are garbage. They could just use decent acc buffs to bring them into line with opposition before they lose their stealth.
Some recon 'tanks' should keep their stealth, like the Chinese one. I also believe recon Bradley's should have reduced stealth but they're not well armoured so they're not that bad.


Chief issue of T-55 recons is that their platform (base T-55) is garbage. Really hard to buff them.

I have another neat idea - making the CV tanks (and vehicles) come with recon optics. Explanation is - local commander sees something and can transmit it to high command and all local units. Some do come with it already.


That is a neat idea. Don't give it to the jeeps or CV infantry though, on the basis that they don't carry enough C3I equipment to effectively communicate the contacts. It'll make it more of a choice between the jeeps and the APCs.

I'm not sure about stealth removal entirely, I see where Eugen are coming from with the idea. They probably shouldn't be actually stealthy but they maybe should be a little more difficult to spot than tanks from non-recon trained units. Also, if we're doing this then we're doing this. Everyone who operated tanks like that should get a recon tank and it's not really fair to give some nations base T-55s and some nations heavy mediums with an antenna on the top.

Basically, take a decent non-proto medium from every nation that put tanks in reconnaissance forces, clone them and stick the clone in the recon tab with "Recce/Aufklarung/Reco/Opklarings/Jeongchal" as appropriate. Yugo can keep the best one for flavour because why not?

Now that I think about it, so long as their ToE supports it this finally gives Japan ground recon for armoured decks.
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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby RedFive » Sat 3 Dec 2016 16:39

FrangibleCover wrote:Don't give it to the jeeps or CV infantry though, on the basis that they don't carry enough C3I equipment to effectively communicate the contacts.

Command units don't have enough C3I equipemnt to report contacts, while recon units do? That makes little sense.

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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby HrcAk47 » Sat 3 Dec 2016 16:47

RedFive wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:Don't give it to the jeeps or CV infantry though, on the basis that they don't carry enough C3I equipment to effectively communicate the contacts.

Command units don't have enough C3I equipemnt to report contacts, while recon units do? That makes little sense.


For the cmd inf, base APCs or base cmd tanks (T-55 and such), good optics for free is quite a good deal. Not gonna break them in any way (since you usually won't drive them out into the foray), and allows for versatility in unexpected situations. Plus, it incentivizes the usage of high tier command tanks, particularly in armored pushes of contested zones - they would get to be very useful during the push itself and not just a 150-200 pt pinata. T-80UK reigns there, as it is a full blown superheavy command tank.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby FrangibleCover » Sat 3 Dec 2016 16:48

RedFive wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:Don't give it to the jeeps or CV infantry though, on the basis that they don't carry enough C3I equipment to effectively communicate the contacts.

Command units don't have enough C3I equipemnt to report contacts, while recon units do? That makes little sense.

Jeep and Infantry commands do not have enough C3I equipment to report contacts while also doing their real jobs of making sectors blue/red, whereas APC and Tank commands do. Recon units have enough equipment to do their jobs, which is solely to report contacts.

I admit it's a pretty flimsy justification but it's one in aid of unit variety.
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