M-84AN Recon Tank

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KattiValk
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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby KattiValk » Sat 3 Dec 2016 17:56

I would support Good optics and no stealth for the M-84 (or just one of the two). You probably wouldn't even need to raise the price after that.

HrcAk47 wrote:If stealth goes, it should go for everybody. Remove RD's last interesting recon capability.
FTFY

After Type 63 got brought in line and the Type 81 got nerfed into RPK tier, this would effectively kill anything special RD has left in the recon tab.

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CornProducts
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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby CornProducts » Sat 3 Dec 2016 17:56

I say degrade the stealth of everything firing something bigger than 90mm or something like that. I like the tank a lot too, but it doesn't seem right that this tank should be so hard to spot while flinging 19AP metal downrange.
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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby Bougnas » Sat 3 Dec 2016 18:14

While on topic of a new Yugoslav recon tank, could Eugen buff the other recon T-55 units to the Yugo recon T-55A level?

The recon T-55 are really bad, and if they were at least buffed to this level it would be nice.

The main changes would be: Addition of the Dshk with 1000 rounds, 5% of additionnal accuracy, 1280L fuel with 600km autonomy.

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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby FrangibleCover » Sat 3 Dec 2016 18:24

mvp7 wrote:If recon tanks lose their stealth I hope the change is limited to MBT recons. There's really no reason to remove stealth from stuff like Sheridan, AMX-13 and PT-76.

kiheerSEDMAN wrote:this would effectively kill anything special RD has left in the recon tab.

Agreed, the light tanks in the recon tab are more recon than tank. They should be left as is, most of them aren't great anyway. I'd be tempted to apply this to the ZTQ series too under a similar justification. Generally I'd say that anything that nerfs either or both Dragon coalitions is a bad plan.

RedFive wrote:Plus infantry and unarmored recon units typically have better optics than armored ones.

When you think about it that's actually bollocks because all the infantry have is binoculars and maybe early passive NV whereas the VG optics vehicles tend to have snazzy thermals or good passive NV. The Good optics vehicles, however, have a bloke with binoculars in them. I'm not saying it should change, I'm just saying that infantry optics is on a different scale to vehicle optics.

RedFive wrote:Besides, I thought adding better optics to command helos was meant to make them more distinct and useful, adding them to other CVs would remove that distinction.

Mister Maf wrote:Regarding command helicopters, better optics combined with the ability to capture command zones without landing would make them very useful as a 2-in-1 recon helicopter/comand unit that's immune to artillery.

The Heli CVs are the only ones I'd give very good optics, the rest of the CVs can go to good. The constant calls for them to cap sectors while hovering have not gotten any less relevant. The whole point of the Airborne Command Post idea is to command from on high and now that CV inf in helicopter transports are a thing I'm not even clear what the Heli CVs landing is supposed to represent.
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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby integ3r » Sat 3 Dec 2016 19:01

This thing should clearly be around 125 points if not more for its current capabilities.
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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby HrcAk47 » Sat 3 Dec 2016 19:35

integ3r wrote:This thing should clearly be around 125 points if not more for its current capabilities.


Verkenning pays +10 for its optics.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby codextero » Sat 3 Dec 2016 20:03

HrcAk47 wrote:
integ3r wrote:This thing should clearly be around 125 points if not more for its current capabilities.


Verkenning pays +10 for its optics.


Optics gets more valuable the more durable the platform it is mounted on is.

M-84AN is also immune to getting 1-shot by ground ATGM. While Verkenning dies in one hit to Konkurs-M, HJ-8, MAPATS, Milan F-2, and TOW-2. Verkenning also dies in 1 hit to 26 KE, or 2 16 KE hits. With it's stealth and durability, M-84AN can make a mistake, get hit, then retreat into cover. Verkennings that make a mistake just die.

That said, Verkennings should be 70 points. It's base unit compares very favorabily with the TOW-2 launchers that form the base unit for M3A2.

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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby HrcAk47 » Sat 3 Dec 2016 20:06

I proposed 110 price for AN with removal from moto to mech two days ago. Let's see how that goes.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby hansbroger » Sat 3 Dec 2016 20:37

Make it a stat clone of a cheaper M-84. Remove stealth. Done. If this thing was a T-72M1 stat clone with very good optics people would gripe but generally would grudgingly accept it. In this respect it would be a relative performance contemporary of the M60A3TTS.

On a completely unrelated tangetn.... Something in me really wants to see a M60A2E2 with optics slapped on it as a recon tank :lol:
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Re: M-84AN Recon Tank

Postby HrcAk47 » Sat 3 Dec 2016 20:40

hansbroger wrote:Make it a stat clone of a cheaper M-84. Remove stealth. Done. If this thing was a T-72M1 stat clone with very good optics people would gripe but generally would grudgingly accept it. In this respect it would be a relative performance contemporary of the M60A3TTS.

On a completely unrelated tangetn.... Something in me really wants to see a M60A2E2 with optics slapped on it as a recon tank :lol:


It doesn't work that way. It was made on M-84A chassis, which completely took over production of parts.

It's like saying give T-80UK T-72MK stats like everyone else on Pact.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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