About the 2 New Mig-29

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HrcAk47
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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby HrcAk47 » Wed 7 Dec 2016 02:20

Demonicjapsel wrote:
GARGEAN wrote:
Demonicjapsel wrote:and can i have this in writing, for the aviation part atleast? because to me, it means opening up an entire new can of worms,

You want me to let you weights of ordnance that can be carried by pylons of 3 weight category(up to 500kg)?


no, i want the official safety margins for the pylons in writing. maximum of allowed weight in excess of the weight the pylon is rated for.


If you want to be anal about it, the "VTUP aviona L-17 i L-17K" (official JNA manual for bis and bisK) permits the carry of BL-755 No.1 Mk.3 on the outboard pylons (pylon 3 and 4). Now, the L-15M is MF, so there could be differences (don't have that specific manual), but chances are negligible. Worst case scenario, we just rename it "L-17", and then it will even turn better, for free :geek:

I'll see to find a picture of such ensemble.

edit: I can only find the VTUP from 1983 online, I have one from 1989 in paper, but not here.
Last edited by HrcAk47 on Wed 7 Dec 2016 02:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Mike
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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby Mike » Wed 7 Dec 2016 02:26

another505 wrote:
Mike wrote:
CommanderDef wrote:it can also be seen for example on projects of nuclear powerplants


Oh the irony.

well... tbf, chernobyl was human error


It's still ironic that he said that.
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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby Killertomato » Wed 7 Dec 2016 02:30

CommanderDef wrote:It's a soviet plane, it would be able to carry twice the load on that pylon if really necessary. Soviets always worked like that, making something solid with lot of reserve. Maybe it was made because of lack of computers, maybe lack of confidence in actual quality of the material, but this is one of the characteristics of soviet high-tech industry. Apart of planes, it can also be seen for example on projects of nuclear powerplants. On the other hand, US planes that are designed 'exactly' - performance is well known, but the reserves are smaller.


I don't believe a single word of this.
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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby GARGEAN » Wed 7 Dec 2016 02:47

Demonicjapsel wrote:no, i want the official safety margins for the pylons in writing. maximum of allowed weight in excess of the weight the pylon is rated for.

FAB-500-M54. Mass 528 kg. Used from 3 weigh category.
RBK-500 BetAB. Mass 525kg. 3 weigh category.
KAB-500L(not sure through K01 or later with gyrostabilized seeker). Mass 534kg. 3 category.
KAB-500S(K01S). Mass 560kg. 3 category.

Can't give you exact pylons specifications now, not working with them at the moment. But I will look in the meantime.
Just off my head before sleep: with standart free-fall bombs limit was up to 525kg. For KAB-500 in development stage limit was moved to 560kg. Hard to say why FAB-500-M54 is breaking from this...

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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby frostypooky » Wed 7 Dec 2016 03:59

Xeno426 wrote:However, according to Yefim Gordon the aircraft were delivered without the jammer. Frostpooky has stated they've picked up the telltale signal of the Gardeniya jammer from their aircraft, so I don't know if Gordon was wrong in this or if the DPRK managed to secure some of those jammer systems at a later date.


calling a canx on that

i misremembered a training aid from 10~ years ago. it was "here is what Gardeniya looks/sounds like using a recorded Russian example, so keep an ear out", my memory treated that as "here's a recorded NK example"

we dont assess they have it

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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby Xeno426 » Wed 7 Dec 2016 04:21

another505 wrote:
Mike wrote:
CommanderDef wrote:it can also be seen for example on projects of nuclear powerplants


Oh the irony.

well... tbf, chernobyl was human error

Yes, the RBMK rector was designed by a human so it technically is human error.
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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby CommanderDef » Wed 7 Dec 2016 04:53

Xeno426 wrote:Yes, the RBMK rector was designed by a human so it technically is human error.

RBMK is still the simplest reactor design. Human stupidity is forcing something to be done if it can't be done safely at given time. And the second aspect, not learning from previous mistakes. Issues of RBMK were known before Chernobyl and nobody pushed that little upgrade that would solve it and probably save Chernobyl from being what it is. But what I originally meant was reactor VVER-440, that has so much project reserves that it's power can be raised above 500 MW with todays simulation methods. It has so much water in primary circuit that it will take few days to boil it all out (Fukushima problem wouldn't happen on this type) and overall there are not many ways to fuck it up.

To the aircraft part for others: when there is a suspicion that the load could damage the plane during flight, plane gets it's geometry measured. There are several reference points and distance between them is measured with precise laser device. That way you know if the load caused any deformation to the frame. Also, when you get a bomb load that is near, or over your limits, you simply don't go 5G, but fly like a bus with a 500 turn radius. Talking about this, the pylon limits should be related to max Gs during flight, otherwise they don't make much sense.
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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby Guggy » Wed 7 Dec 2016 04:54

Killertomato wrote:I don't believe a single word of this.


Yeah, what the hell lol.

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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby codextero » Wed 7 Dec 2016 05:02

Guggy wrote:
Killertomato wrote:I don't believe a single word of this.


Yeah, what the hell lol.


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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby another505 » Wed 7 Dec 2016 05:11

Xeno426 wrote:Yes, the RBMK rector was designed by a human so it technically is human error.

Wasnt it because some uneducated engineer that try to push the reactor's limit overboard? Thats what i heard, i never read deep into it
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