About the 2 New Mig-29

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CommanderDef
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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby CommanderDef » Thu 8 Dec 2016 16:45

Xeno426 wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:Be fair, that's pretty damn innovative. Nobody had done anything like it previously.

Spoiler : :
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Spoiler : :
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First is dumb fired, second has unique guiding system.
Sometimes I wish my country wasn't included in the beginning, but coming as a paid DLC...
Spoiler : :
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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby Xeno426 » Thu 8 Dec 2016 16:47

CommanderDef wrote:First is dumb fired, second has unique guiding system.

Also a unique pilot escape system.

Jump out in front of a ramjet intake.
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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby FrangibleCover » Thu 8 Dec 2016 16:56

Xeno426 wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:Be fair, that's pretty damn innovative. Nobody had done anything like it previously.

[Nutty Nazi suicide V1s]

Fair enough, didn't realise they beat the Ohka to test flights by a month if Wiki is to be believed. Still, it never actually entered service and it's a pulsejet, not a solid rocket aircraft. There's some innovation in the Ohka, first solid-rocket powered aircraft I think. One does wonder if they'd been more sensible to just put the explosives on the rocket motors and then sling it under a light bomber to create a proto S-24.

Because I'm determined to keep on topic a little, does anyone know if Finland had any mad suicide aircraft that we can switch in for the MiG-29?
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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby CommanderDef » Thu 8 Dec 2016 17:08

FrangibleCover wrote:
Xeno426 wrote:
FrangibleCover wrote:Be fair, that's pretty damn innovative. Nobody had done anything like it previously.

[Nutty Nazi suicide V1s]

Fair enough, didn't realise they beat the Ohka to test flights by a month if Wiki is to be believed. Still, it never actually entered service and it's a pulsejet, not a solid rocket aircraft. There's some innovation in the Ohka, first solid-rocket powered aircraft I think. One does wonder if they'd been more sensible to just put the explosives on the rocket motors and then sling it under a light bomber to create a proto S-24.

There is also a 'BAT' bomb, Henschel Hs293 and Fritz X.
Xeno426 wrote:
CommanderDef wrote:First is dumb fired, second has unique guiding system.

Also a unique pilot escape system.

Jump out in front of a ramjet intake.

And I thought that the piloted V-1 was a japenese homemade upgrade, but... did Germans actually use that 'guided' one? Or is it just for test?
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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby Xeno426 » Thu 8 Dec 2016 17:13

CommanderDef wrote:[
And I thought that the piloted V-1 was a japenese homemade upgrade, but... did Germans actually use that 'guided' one? Or is it just for test?

It was planned to be used, but Hitler was very against the concept of suicide bombing and thus the tactic was for the pilot to fix the aircraft into a dive and lock in the stick, then bail out.

Granted, the aforementioned issue of the ramjet intake being just above his head, along with the likely very high slipstream during the dive and dimensions of the rest of the tail and engine assembly basically meant it was a suicide weapon anyway, but nobody told Hitler that. It never got used, though; the closest to manned use were training in glider versions.
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CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby FrangibleCover » Thu 8 Dec 2016 19:47

Xeno426 wrote:
CommanderDef wrote:[
And I thought that the piloted V-1 was a japenese homemade upgrade, but... did Germans actually use that 'guided' one? Or is it just for test?

It was planned to be used, but Hitler was very against the concept of suicide bombing and thus the tactic was for the pilot to fix the aircraft into a dive and lock in the stick, then bail out.

Granted, the aforementioned issue of the ramjet intake being just above his head, along with the likely very high slipstream during the dive and dimensions of the rest of the tail and engine assembly basically meant it was a suicide weapon anyway, but nobody told Hitler that. It never got used, though; the closest to manned use were training in glider versions.

It's not a ramjet, it's a pulsejet. It makes relatively little difference though, going headfirst through any description of aircraft engine is going to be deeply unpleasant.

The Germans had ejection seats on the Do-335 that kinda-sorta worked (they occasionally pulled your arms off at the shoulder) so it's not that they couldn't have built a pilot escape mechanism that gave the silly bugger a chance, probably ejecting downwards. The Germans kept projects like all the Luft '46 stuff going towards the end of the war that were obviously going to take longer than they had to bear fruit, so it's not that they didn't think they had time to design the pilot escape mechanism. Therefore the conclusion has to be that the Fi-103R was a suicide weapon by design rather than unhappy circumstance.

These things always beg the question though: What were they trying to hit? There are massive unstoppable armies closing on them from all directions, they can't end the war by 'heroically' ploughing a plywood box full of bang into any point target I can think of. I sort of see the Ohka as an anti-ship weapon that, in sufficient numbers, could have disrupted USN tactical airpower over Kyushu in the event of an invasion but what utility would the Fi-103R have against the combined Allied armed forces on land?
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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby Xeno426 » Thu 8 Dec 2016 19:55

FrangibleCover wrote:It's not a ramjet, it's a pulsejet.

Derp, you're right. I know the difference too, which makes my mistake more personally annoying.

It makes relatively little difference though, going headfirst through any description of aircraft engine is going to be deeply unpleasant.

FrangibleCover wrote:The Germans had ejection seats on the Do-335 that kinda-sorta worked (they occasionally pulled your arms off at the shoulder) so it's not that they couldn't have built a pilot escape mechanism that gave the silly bugger a chance, probably ejecting downwards.

Problem is that they used explosives to launch the pilot out, which is where the excessive strain came from (modern systems use rockets because it has lower acceleration). On the piloted V-1, I'm sure weight was a big issue for installing something like an ejection seat.

FrangibleCover wrote:These things always beg the question though: What were they trying to hit? There are massive unstoppable armies closing on them from all directions, they can't end the war by 'heroically' ploughing a plywood box full of bang into any point target I can think of. I sort of see the Ohka as an anti-ship weapon that, in sufficient numbers, could have disrupted USN tactical airpower over Kyushu in the event of an invasion but what utility would the Fi-103R have against the combined Allied armed forces on land?

Hitler. Basically the reason a lot of stupid projects kept going.
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CloakandDagger wrote:And you're one of the people with the shiny colored name. No wonder the game is in the state it's in.

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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby molnibalage » Fri 9 Dec 2016 13:40

IMHO as long as FIN has the USA equv. F-18 ASF MiG-29 maybe should not be ASF with BVR capability. Can be similar to USSR MiG-29S. With 2+2 R-77+R-73 it would be superior comparing even to Mirage-2000C which suffers from 4+5HE AAM issue.

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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby urogard » Fri 9 Dec 2016 17:56

molnibalage wrote:IMHO as long as FIN has the USA equv. F-18 ASF MiG-29 maybe should not be ASF with BVR capability. Can be similar to USSR MiG-29S. With 2+2 R-77+R-73 it would be superior comparing even to Mirage-2000C which suffers from 4+5HE AAM issue.

I think you mixed up something there
USSR MiG-29S has iron bombs

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Re: About the 2 New Mig-29

Postby molnibalage » Sat 10 Dec 2016 02:15

urogard wrote:
molnibalage wrote:IMHO as long as FIN has the USA equv. F-18 ASF MiG-29 maybe should not be ASF with BVR capability. Can be similar to USSR MiG-29S. With 2+2 R-77+R-73 it would be superior comparing even to Mirage-2000C which suffers from 4+5HE AAM issue.

I think you mixed up something there
USSR MiG-29S has iron bombs

No, just some words are missing. I think it should be iron bomber. Somebody suggested 2xR-77 + 2xR-77. This is where I mentioned M2k.

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