Make the USSR "Sufficient" Again!

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hansbroger
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Re: Make the USSR "Sufficient" Again!

Postby hansbroger » Mon 23 Jan 2017 21:41

Azaz3l wrote:
hansbroger wrote:Kobra has the potential to be a better missile than Refleks in many ways as it maintains an average velocity of close to 440 m/s over its 4000m flight range (faster than Refleks) and justifiably could be one of the fastest GLATGMs (and ATGMs) in the game, somewhat negating its limited 2625m range while when it comes to warheads in the T-80BV's timeframe there is comparatively no difference in warhead performance between Refleks and 9M112M2/M4/128, if anything AP assignment will be in the low range to keep price pressure down. Thus I actually see a T-80BV with 9M128 as being functionally no different than the Refleks armed T-80A which could then be turned into a much better tank.

There is a reason why 9M119 Refleks missile was developed in 80s: Kobra despite the upgrades still had 60s guidance system that was easily jammable and not 100% reliable, the newly developed Refleks' guidance on the other hand was pretty unjammable. The only difference in speed is that Kobra arrives only 1 second earlier at 4000m range Refleks. Tanks with Kobra also cannot reach 5km thanks to their guidance unlike Refleks.


I'm not saying the Refleks system didn't have more potential (It does), I'm just saying the Kobra came close enough and exceeded refleks in some key parameters given its stats in game (in the case of a 2625m where time on target is vital, modeling Kobra's speed which included an 800m/s initial sprint phase is a good idea and makes for a flavorful alternative), it should not be more accurate than Refleks or Svir but that being said it should be accurate enough to get the job done, not the current paltry 45% CTH.

The jamming was a concern but 9K112's multi channel system was far less susceptible than the system used for example by Shillelagh. While a concern it wasn't an outright Achilles heel. The guidance system was from the 60s but the avionics were progressively upgraded through the missile's production history so there's room for minor improvements to be found there. Since we're stuck with it up to T-64/80BV might as well make it somewhat useful and faithful to the characteristics.
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Re: Make the USSR "Sufficient" Again!

Postby Zero_Ecm » Mon 23 Jan 2017 21:47

Azaz3l wrote:SU units that absolutely make sense:

Ka-52 especially with Kh-25 missile - ootf + weird missile loadout
BTR-T - direct Chechen war development which wasn't mass produced
T-64BM - 1000hp engine + turret armor upgrade with only 5 units at max produced
T-72 obr. 87 - non existant year modifcation, should be T-72B instead
T-55AM2 - Czech name for upgraded T-55
TO-62 - non existant tank
Base T-62 in 80s

Feel free to complete this.


+According to Eugen, AS-VAS is a SMG from 70s.

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Azaz3l
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Re: Make the USSR "Sufficient" Again!

Postby Azaz3l » Mon 23 Jan 2017 21:51

btw, Kobra should have at least the same speed as Svir/Refleks, but for some reason it's slower in game.

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Bougnas
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Re: Make the USSR "Sufficient" Again!

Postby Bougnas » Mon 23 Jan 2017 21:59

This has to do with the fact that the Refleks is SALH as SALH are the fastest missiles ingame.
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krasnyii
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Re: Make the USSR "Sufficient" Again!

Postby krasnyii » Mon 23 Jan 2017 22:14

another505 wrote:so what if there were 1 or 2 in history
It has been here since ALB, not RD. A lot of leftover units are still here. eugen doesnt throw away model. T80bv can get a missile change without T80a's influence.


Of course we can keep both.

But sometimes I think Eugen aren't always doing the best work on USSR units for a game based on the idea that the cold war become hot in a world where USSR crushed its capitalist counter-revolution :)

I m more sceptical about T80UD/UM question. I would love to have all the pro and cons of the choice of the Gas Turbine during USSR. Especially with the Chechnya war and the change it brings to the Russian Army and maybe not to the Alternative Soviet Army.
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another505
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Re: Make the USSR "Sufficient" Again!

Postby another505 » Mon 23 Jan 2017 22:46

Have to say, the UM FAV buff was really nice. Makes engaging HC less risky(although original UM has the 1AP advantage, i didnt like the odds which can be easily changed by missing one shot)
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krasnyii
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Re: Make the USSR "Sufficient" Again!

Postby krasnyii » Mon 23 Jan 2017 23:18

another505 wrote:Have to say, the UM FAV buff was really nice. Makes engaging HC less risky(although original UM has the 1AP advantage, i didnt like the odds which can be easily changed by missing one shot)


My god yes this buff is a blessing from Holy Marx.
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Re: Make the USSR "Sufficient" Again!

Postby codextero » Mon 23 Jan 2017 23:28

another505 wrote:Have to say, the UM FAV buff was really nice. Makes engaging HC less risky(although original UM has the 1AP advantage, i didnt like the odds which can be easily changed by missing one shot)


The poor US player who has to take on both cards of UM and BU with just 2 M1A2's on the other hand...

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another505
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Re: Make the USSR "Sufficient" Again!

Postby another505 » Tue 24 Jan 2017 01:13

codextero wrote:
another505 wrote:Have to say, the UM FAV buff was really nice. Makes engaging HC less risky(although original UM has the 1AP advantage, i didnt like the odds which can be easily changed by missing one shot)


The poor US player who has to take on both cards of UM and BU with just 2 M1A2's on the other hand...

Hey i support two cards of HC!

Though i find um is really necessary for ussr to remain prime in tank combat as 80u and obr 89 are pretty lackluster in tank fights



80u is 10pts more than HA for speed refleks and autoloader, but HA is cheaper and more ascurate

I mean its not bad, but its advantages which makes it more pricy are spread around for general combat than pure tank vs tank

And i already said the 89 is not worth the price compare to t72S . Whooping 15 pts for just 2fav, is way out of line compare to other upgrades

The whole higher end tanks of ussr >110 pts are less efficient in tank vs tank than blufors or even yugo
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Re: Make the USSR "Sufficient" Again!

Postby codextero » Tue 24 Jan 2017 01:18

another505 wrote:And i already said the 89 is not worth the price compare to t72S . Whooping 15 pts for just 2fav, is way out of line compare to other upgrades


15 for 2 is pretty average, dare I say good at that price range.

HA to HC is 15 for 2 AP, which is worse than 15 for 2 FAV.

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