What if Recoiless Rifles weren't bad?

User avatar
Bougnas
Major-General
Posts: 3699
Joined: Sat 26 Apr 2014 18:24
Contact:

Re: What if Recoiless Rifles weren't bad?

Postby Bougnas » Mon 12 Dec 2016 23:12

JoonasTo wrote:They're mostly bad because all the systems in the game are bad in real life.

Eugen didn't really favour bringing in Cat A RRs too much.
They're pretty good in the Cat C games though. They just don't age that well.


They weren't bad IRL, they are just undermodeled in AP and don't work very well in the meta and with the game mechanics (HEAT mechanics and the fact that these weapons are used by very vulnerable units that aren't that stealthy)'
Image

User avatar
Mako
General
Posts: 7352
Joined: Sun 5 May 2013 20:00
Location: Cascadia
Contact:

Re: What if Recoiless Rifles weren't bad?

Postby Mako » Mon 12 Dec 2016 23:13

JoonasTo wrote:They're mostly bad because all the systems in the game are bad in real life.


Not compared to infantry launchers they weren't.
If there's two kinds of players, those that like challenges and those that want a fair game, pubstomps should make everyone happy.

User avatar
CandyMan
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 2017
Joined: Sat 11 May 2013 01:24
Contact:

Re: What if Recoiless Rifles weren't bad?

Postby CandyMan » Mon 12 Dec 2016 23:29

Buffs would go a long way to making the RR jeeps viable. I definitely feel the "fist" RR teams need 9 rpm.
Image
Your standard pinko Commie swine...
Rabidnid wrote:NK has a veritable cornucopia of mediocrity to choose from when it comes to inexpensive vehicular recon!

User avatar
Razzmann
General
Posts: 7497
Joined: Fri 7 Mar 2014 15:29
Location: The land of flowing beer and Sauerkraut.
Contact:

Re: What if Recoiless Rifles weren't bad?

Postby Razzmann » Mon 12 Dec 2016 23:42

You want RRs to be good? Gib China the PF-98 8-)

User avatar
Mako
General
Posts: 7352
Joined: Sun 5 May 2013 20:00
Location: Cascadia
Contact:

Re: What if Recoiless Rifles weren't bad?

Postby Mako » Mon 12 Dec 2016 23:43

Razzmann wrote:You want RRs to be good? Gib China the PF-98 8-)


As is it would probably have 30% accuracy and 13 AP :lol:
If there's two kinds of players, those that like challenges and those that want a fair game, pubstomps should make everyone happy.

User avatar
Razzmann
General
Posts: 7497
Joined: Fri 7 Mar 2014 15:29
Location: The land of flowing beer and Sauerkraut.
Contact:

Re: What if Recoiless Rifles weren't bad?

Postby Razzmann » Mon 12 Dec 2016 23:45

Mako wrote:
Razzmann wrote:You want RRs to be good? Gib China the PF-98 8-)


As is it would probably have 30% accuracy and 13 AP :lol:



Does this look like 30% accuracy and 13AP to you? 8-)

User avatar
another505
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 13128
Joined: Sun 21 Jul 2013 05:18
Location: Hiatus
Contact:

Re: What if Recoiless Rifles weren't bad?

Postby another505 » Mon 12 Dec 2016 23:48

Mako wrote:
Razzmann wrote:You want RRs to be good? Gib China the PF-98 8-)


As is it would probably have 30% accuracy and 13 AP :lol:

More like 25 AP, 70 accuracy, 1225m , 3 HE + Napalm. :twisted:
Image
Of Salt

User avatar
Killertomato
More than 10 000 messages. Soldier you are the leader of all armies!
Posts: 13730
Joined: Mon 9 Jul 2012 02:46
Contact:

Re: What if Recoiless Rifles weren't bad?

Postby Killertomato » Mon 12 Dec 2016 23:51

Bougnas wrote:In before Pvpj 1110 m/77 with 16AP (500mm IRL) and m/84 with 22AP (800mm IRL) :lol:

Besides, why aren't the T-21 Tarasnice and M67 RCL considered as RPGs ingame? They are shoulder fired like the Carl gustav and ain't that big.


Because Eugen. The M67 is basically the US version of the Gustav.
orcbuster wrote:USSR gets prototype marsupials, why would you need moose when you got stuff with kickers like that AND transport capability? And I'm not even gonna START on the french Marsupilami, I don't even think thats a real animal! Why no trolls for Norway?

User avatar
JoonasTo
Master Sergeant
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu 17 Nov 2016 21:30
Location: Somewhere in the Finnish woodlands
Contact:

Re: What if Recoiless Rifles weren't bad?

Postby JoonasTo » Mon 12 Dec 2016 23:54

Mako wrote:
JoonasTo wrote:They're mostly bad because all the systems in the game are bad in real life.


Not compared to infantry launchers they weren't.

Really?
Sure if you look at a single launcher vs single launcher but you need to remember that for every heavy RR, you would have multiple infantry launchers.

So, which ones would you rather have, the infantry launchers with the capability for simultaneous fire and better concealment plus dispersed firing positions or a heavy RR launcher that has worse rate of fire, worse concealment and fires from a singular position? There isn't much of a difference in penetration in the 80s and forward either. The only benefit of the heavy RR is range.

So you pick the RR for range then right? No, not in a modern battlefield when you have ATGMs available that are far more accurate at a far longer range.

So where do you have a spot left for RRs? And why? Well, they're cheap compared to ATGMs, so maybe if you're really poor you can't afford that many ATGMs. They're easier to make, so if you don't have the tech for ATGMs, you can still probably make RRs. These create a niche for them in the medium range where using them is cheaper(in money, yet more costly in lives lost) than ATGMs for certain armies.

But for most, heavy RRs are simply a thing of the past.
The psychotic Finnish wood-elf

User avatar
mvp7
Master Sergeant
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu 2 May 2013 15:22
Contact:

Re: What if Recoiless Rifles weren't bad?

Postby mvp7 » Mon 12 Dec 2016 23:55

The problem with significantly buffing the accuracy, ROF and AP of recoilless rifles is that they would quickly become simply better than many ATGMs and infantry AT launchers while not having a lot of the weaknesses of those systems (ATGM requires guiding and infantry launchers lack range).

On the other hand, adjusting them more towards the HE fire support would give them a clear role that is currently not being fulfilled by other infantry weapons (except maybe the rare infantry AGLs) while also leaving them a decent weapon against light and medium vehicles.

Return to “Wargame : Red Dragon”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: FrangibleCover and 47 guests