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SK-60B: Can it be saved?

Posted: Wed 14 Dec 2016 20:00
by Seryn
The Unit:

This thing is really really saddening for me, If you play a Swedish National Deck, Particularly Airborne, it is your only real form of Multirole (Engages Multiple Ground varients) CAS (The Kamikaze Draken not counting due to a lack of ammunition load, Scandi coalition has Super Sabre which is hilarious, but that is a Denmark unit.) and is the only actual "AGM" in the game.

Why is it so Bad?
Problem 1:
It never hits. Based strictly on HE Damage multiplied by quantity (not factoring in anything) it has 50% the firepower of a Nighthawk, Fair enough you get 3 Upvetted in a National deck, but with the average hit rate of it you actually only get 1/4th of the Firepower per Attack Run as the 1st WILL miss, which is vaguely Upsetting. It also lacks a GUN. which could stun the target. Now I never CHECKED if it had one irl(nvm I checked, it could mount a pod with either 7.62mm or 30mm on its 6 [!] hardpoints) but still a sour point for a CAS Plane, as it would be guarenteed range.
Problem 2:
Speed + TOT equals it has a poor range of coverage.
Problem 3: CAS Plane, Needs to get close, NO ECM.

Solutions: Add ToT up to around 120 seconds. Doubling its net of coverage and add 10% ECM, will not do much to save it, but will spare the plane possibly.

Solutions Part 2: Increase Accuracy of the AGM and increase ToT to 105, slightly more practical, and enables it to well, not suck, while still sucking.

Solutions Part 3: Rename to SK-60W, Increase Missile Accuracy by 10%, Increase flight altitude (Trainer Aircraft), ToT 150 (upgraded engine) Intro Date '96 (I saw a '96 unit somewhere so it isn't OOTF, also K1A1), Speed to 900 km/h (could hit 970 km/h above sea level irl) and adding a 30mm Gun pod.

I am aware the K1A1 is an exception and not a standard, but Scandinavia in General lacks a solid long range CAS Plane, And Sweden is lazily sitting around with an abyssmal one that became pretty darn nice within the Wargame timeline.

I accept this is a pipe dream and everyone can debate it.

Side Note Edit: I tried attacking ground with it and the missile went off to the moon, Eugen how even? :shock:

Re: SK-60B: Can it be saved?

Posted: Wed 14 Dec 2016 20:20
by FrangibleCover
So what's the justification for these stat changes? You can't just go around handing out ECM and ToT willy-nilly, you have to provide some evidence.

Someone said something recently about increasing its HE because the missile was remarkably heavy, that would help. Also because it was only ever tested with the Rb 05 it should really be a prototype so it could be turned into an SK-60W without too much of an issue. If this happens maybe it would be best to clone it and have an SK-60B with whatever cruddy dumb bombs can be scraped up just so that Sweden has some HE delivery in Category-limited games.

Re: SK-60B: Can it be saved?

Posted: Wed 14 Dec 2016 20:26
by GARGEAN
Lol'd at "it's 970km/h so it should be 900km/h ingame!"
Never knew that my Su-27S and MiG-29 was so slowasses.

Re: SK-60B: Can it be saved?

Posted: Wed 14 Dec 2016 21:17
by Xeno426
Seryn wrote: and is the only actual "AGM" in the game.

False. AGM means Air to Ground Missile, so any missile designed to attack units on the ground is an AGM. The term "ATGM" stands for "Anti-Tank Guided Missile", which does not have to be air-launched. The Maverick is only fired from aircraft; the TOW may be ground-launched.

AGM and ATGM share overlap in a ven diagram, but they are neither the same thing nor mutually exclusive, though pure AGM systems are not referred to as "ATGM" to avoid confusion with that term.

Besides, what of the AGM-12, Kh-66, Kh-23 or Kh-29?

Also, lol at improved loiter and ECM. It had zero countermeasure systems, including RWR. It gets o ECM. It also has far less fuel than many other aircraft; it can't really get more, and certainly not values like 120s.

Re: SK-60B: Can it be saved?

Posted: Wed 14 Dec 2016 21:29
by RedFive
I agree it's of limited utility now. I'd propose a simple fix to make it more usable: Make it use the LGB mechanics for its missiles again. LGBs aren't 100% accuracy anymore, so this would make the missiles more useful without being OP.

Re: SK-60B: Can it be saved?

Posted: Wed 14 Dec 2016 22:39
by Seryn
Xeno426 wrote:
Seryn wrote: and is the only actual "AGM" in the game.

False. AGM means Air to Ground Missile, so any missile designed to attack units on the ground is an AGM. The term "ATGM" stands for "Anti-Tank Guided Missile", which does not have to be air-launched. The Maverick is only fired from aircraft; the TOW may be ground-launched.

AGM and ATGM share overlap in a ven diagram, but they are neither the same thing nor mutually exclusive, though pure AGM systems are not referred to as "ATGM" to avoid confusion with that term.

Besides, what of the AGM-12, Kh-66, Kh-23 or Kh-29?

Also, lol at improved loiter and ECM. It had zero countermeasure systems, including RWR. It gets o ECM. It also has far less fuel than many other aircraft; it can't really get more, and certainly not values like 120s.


Never checked AGM-12, KH-66, -23 or -29.
Regarding 0 ECM, That much I do understand, and why I recommended -60W. As more modern radar equipments are designed not be detected on return signals. And -60W iirc was a trainer for the Gripen so.......

Re: SK-60B: Can it be saved?

Posted: Wed 14 Dec 2016 23:51
by smyljr
can we instead add 4 30mm gunpods?

it MIGHT get a slot instead of the rocket draken then.

probably not...

Re: SK-60B: Can it be saved?

Posted: Wed 14 Dec 2016 23:58
by Seryn
smyljr wrote:can we instead add 4 30mm gunpods?

it MIGHT get a slot instead of the rocket draken then.

probably not...



Twin Gunpods, AGMs, and Aim-9Ls in a perfect world :)

Re: SK-60B: Can it be saved?

Posted: Thu 15 Dec 2016 01:17
by FrangibleCover
Seryn wrote:
smyljr wrote:can we instead add 4 30mm gunpods?

it MIGHT get a slot instead of the rocket draken then.

probably not...



Twin Gunpods, AGMs, and Aim-9Ls in a perfect world :)

Won't that just drive up the price without making it any better? The dive angle from the gunpods might be an improvement but the AIM-9s will just impose a 10 point tax in return for being yet another crap helicopter sniper like the other three Sweden alone already has.

Re: SK-60B: Can it be saved?

Posted: Thu 15 Dec 2016 10:20
by Fodder
Plz find a way to save it plz.
And save the F 35 Draken too.