[Commentary] US Unit Choices In 1vs1 Ranked (Dec 2016)

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Razzmann
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Re: [Commentary] US Unit Choices In 1vs1 Ranked (Dec 2016)

Postby Razzmann » Mon 19 Dec 2016 00:26

RoadkillRodger wrote:Out of curiousity, have you ever thought about dropping one of the attack planes (deagle or prowler) in favor of the Tomcat?

I've found that it completely shuts down most air tabs when paired with a blk52, and gives you some flex if you lose the Patriot for whatever reason.

That's more than 300pts just for anti plane aa though. Not to mention that you can't have your planes up at 100% of the times.

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Re: [Commentary] US Unit Choices In 1vs1 Ranked (Dec 2016)

Postby Ribar » Mon 19 Dec 2016 00:37

Razzmann wrote:
RoadkillRodger wrote:Out of curiousity, have you ever thought about dropping one of the attack planes (deagle or prowler) in favor of the Tomcat?

I've found that it completely shuts down most air tabs when paired with a blk52, and gives you some flex if you lose the Patriot for whatever reason.

That's more than 300pts just for anti plane aa though. Not to mention that you can't have your planes up at 100% of the times.
With F-14s T.O.T. (180 or something seconds) you can most certainly have one tomcat in air while other one refuels, I've done it in campaign in naval mode. So it is achieveable to be able to deploy both tomcats all the time of the match. There is a very small gap that can be exploited. Problem is it is micro intensive and too expensive to maintain in 1v1 match, both in cards and money.
It is much more cost-effective to deploy air network smartly and according to the need on the field with the geography of the battlefield in mind.
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Re: [Commentary] US Unit Choices In 1vs1 Ranked (Dec 2016)

Postby ThePriyad » Mon 19 Dec 2016 01:29

Ribar wrote:
Razzmann wrote:
RoadkillRodger wrote:Out of curiousity, have you ever thought about dropping one of the attack planes (deagle or prowler) in favor of the Tomcat?

I've found that it completely shuts down most air tabs when paired with a blk52, and gives you some flex if you lose the Patriot for whatever reason.

That's more than 300pts just for anti plane aa though. Not to mention that you can't have your planes up at 100% of the times.
With F-14s T.O.T. (180 or something seconds) you can most certainly have one tomcat in air while other one refuels, I've done it in campaign in naval mode. So it is achieveable to be able to deploy both tomcats all the time of the match. There is a very small gap that can be exploited. Problem is it is micro intensive and too expensive to maintain in 1v1 match, both in cards and money.
It is much more cost-effective to deploy air network smartly and according to the need on the field with the geography of the battlefield in mind.


Considering the ranked map pool, and how little I use the Deagle, a Tomcat may prove interesting. I am hesitant though because of its hit chance and thus actual results. Also, I have some awful luck with planes in 1vs1.
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Re: [Commentary] US Unit Choices In 1vs1 Ranked (Dec 2016)

Postby Coletrain » Mon 19 Dec 2016 01:37

ThePriyad wrote:
Coletrain wrote:They don't have good all-round motorized AA like the OSA and ROMB units, which are particularly powerful in the opening stages of the game.

With that said, I've been experimenting with using 4 cards of AA including PIVADS, Avenger, 55 point Chap, and 70 point chap. Foregoing the Patriot all together because it's such an expensive unit for 1v1. It's been working well so far.


Can you expand on that - what rank of play do you find yourself in and where do you see difficulty? I've had trouble with an avenger because it typically trades with a rocket pod helo. I also wondered about the 55 point chap but my problem has been dealing with planes - chaparral hasn't been reliable for me.


I've only played about 200 ranked games so I'm fairly low rank (392 or something). At least half of those were just insta-losing to chopper rush and me trying to do memey strategies like airborne assault with light riflemen '90 in blackhawks. I was a high masters starcraft 2 player (terran) for 2-3 seasons... if that says anything.

I mainly use the Avenger to kill planes not helicopters. I typically micro them immediately (danger close) behind the front line, often even put them right inside towns behind infantry. Due to the fact that they have amazing stabilizers & move so fast I find you can actually move them out of the way of a bomber once you've ascertained it's trajectory. It's micro intensive but worth it because it's such an inexpensive way of killing even high ECM planes.

The 55 point chap is just nice to have as an option to save points.

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Re: [Commentary] US Unit Choices In 1vs1 Ranked (Dec 2016)

Postby ThePriyad » Mon 19 Dec 2016 02:11

Coletrain wrote:
ThePriyad wrote:
Coletrain wrote:They don't have good all-round motorized AA like the OSA and ROMB units, which are particularly powerful in the opening stages of the game.

With that said, I've been experimenting with using 4 cards of AA including PIVADS, Avenger, 55 point Chap, and 70 point chap. Foregoing the Patriot all together because it's such an expensive unit for 1v1. It's been working well so far.


Can you expand on that - what rank of play do you find yourself in and where do you see difficulty? I've had trouble with an avenger because it typically trades with a rocket pod helo. I also wondered about the 55 point chap but my problem has been dealing with planes - chaparral hasn't been reliable for me.


I've only played about 200 ranked games so I'm fairly low rank (392 or something). At least half of those were just insta-losing to chopper rush and me trying to do memey strategies like airborne assault with light riflemen '90 in blackhawks. I was a high masters starcraft 2 player (terran) for 2-3 seasons... if that says anything.

I mainly use the Avenger to kill planes not helicopters. I typically micro them immediately (danger close) behind the front line, often even put them right inside towns behind infantry. Due to the fact that they have amazing stabilizers & move so fast I find you can actually move them out of the way of a bomber once you've ascertained it's trajectory. It's micro intensive but worth it because it's such an inexpensive way of killing even high ECM planes.

The 55 point chap is just nice to have as an option to save points.


Interesting indeed. I don't see bombers as a problem where I am at. Its typically AGM/Rocket Pod planes that do the lions share of the work against me. Avengers won't do much to AGM, and helicopters which come out after AA gets sniped.

I'm liking the idea of 70 pt chap swap to 55 pt one while also swapping the patriot to Hawk PIP III to regain the helicopter range. Over all anti-air ability gets cheaper with that as well. Thanks.
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Re: [Commentary] US Unit Choices In 1vs1 Ranked (Dec 2016)

Postby RoadkillRodger » Mon 19 Dec 2016 06:15

ThePriyad wrote:
Ribar wrote:
Razzmann wrote:That's more than 300pts just for anti plane aa though. Not to mention that you can't have your planes up at 100% of the times.
With F-14s T.O.T. (180 or something seconds) you can most certainly have one tomcat in air while other one refuels, I've done it in campaign in naval mode. So it is achieveable to be able to deploy both tomcats all the time of the match. There is a very small gap that can be exploited.


Considering the ranked map pool, and how little I use the Deagle, a Tomcat may prove interesting. I am hesitant though because of its hit chance and thus actual results. Also, I have some awful luck with planes in 1vs1.


I definitely don't do it all the time, but when I do it gives me the option to punish an opponent pretty hard for buying into their air tab.

CTH on the tcat is decent given the ripple fire. Not like you'd ever want to send it into a merge with an L-19 but especially on larger maps like highway it's great at applying pressure or killing bombers. 8 HE also means the occasional one shot kill which is nice.

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Re: [Commentary] US Unit Choices In 1vs1 Ranked (Dec 2016)

Postby Dimebag94407 » Sat 28 Jan 2017 13:37

Hello, sorry for necroing, what do you think of the delta force buff/nerf (opinion varies)? Does having better anti-tank and a 5 points price nerf affect their old role?

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Re: [Commentary] US Unit Choices In 1vs1 Ranked (Dec 2016)

Postby nuke92 » Sat 28 Jan 2017 14:41

I think this one still describes it the best:

http://funnypictures1.fjcdn.com/hdgifs/Wargame_084df9_5931858.mp4

:lol:
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Re: [Commentary] US Unit Choices In 1vs1 Ranked (Dec 2016)

Postby urogard » Sat 28 Jan 2017 14:53

ThePriyad wrote:
Ribar wrote:With F-14s T.O.T. (180 or something seconds) you can most certainly have one tomcat in air while other one refuels, I've done it in campaign in naval mode. So it is achieveable to be able to deploy both tomcats all the time of the match. There is a very small gap that can be exploited. Problem is it is micro intensive and too expensive to maintain in 1v1 match, both in cards and money.
It is much more cost-effective to deploy air network smartly and according to the need on the field with the geography of the battlefield in mind.


Considering the ranked map pool, and how little I use the Deagle, a Tomcat may prove interesting. I am hesitant though because of its hit chance and thus actual results. Also, I have some awful luck with planes in 1vs1.

The tomcat is too card ineffective and rather expensive in comparison to its reliability of shooting down planes to be really viable in a 1v1.

Sometimes it's not enough to simply deny airspace because it means the plane can still come later when your tomcat is rearming, leaving your assets on the ground undefended.
If that enemy plane gets shot down on the other hand ...

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Re: [Commentary] US Unit Choices In 1vs1 Ranked (Dec 2016)

Postby urogard » Sat 28 Jan 2017 14:54

Dimebag94407 wrote:Hello, sorry for necroing, what do you think of the delta force buff/nerf (opinion varies)? Does having better anti-tank and a 5 points price nerf affect their old role?

I know that they are now actually pickable in a USA deck
Before they were not worth the deck slot unless in very specific situations and hence not worth to be picked in general.

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