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Re: ROUT!

Posted: Mon 26 Dec 2016 23:54
by Seryn
Fade2Gray wrote:
M4jor wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:No, it was a universally bad mechanic that was axed after EE.


Too bad, because there are still way worse mechanics in the game that are in need of the axe.


Too bad, rout has already been axed into nothing. If you had played the game as much as you claim you have, you would know this. Instead...

M4jor wrote:Let me translate my sentence into troll-language:


here you are trying to pick a fight out of the blue over absolutely nothing. Rout has been nerfed into nothing, deal with it? By all means though, continue to translate your own words for yourself if you wish.

Shrike wrote:Conquest players? But I play siege and economy.


Press F to pay respects for siege.


Press F to nuke Fade for using stupid CoD stupidity.

Also Press F to delete 2 stack of T-72BUwith ATACMS.

Re: ROUT!

Posted: Tue 27 Dec 2016 00:12
by smyljr
imagine if routed units automatically reversed/flew towards their spawn point?

Re: ROUT!

Posted: Tue 27 Dec 2016 00:16
by Seryn
smyljr wrote:imagine if routed units automatically reversed/flew towards their spawn point?


Or just do it how RUSE (Another Eugen RTS) did it? Where they would REVERSE FROM THE DANGER..

Re: ROUT!

Posted: Tue 27 Dec 2016 00:38
by Killertomato
Seryn wrote:
smyljr wrote:imagine if routed units automatically reversed/flew towards their spawn point?


Or just do it how RUSE (Another Eugen RTS) did it? Where they would REVERSE FROM THE DANGER..


No, clearly it needs to drive at what's shooting at it.

If it leaves cover or turns to show the weakest armor to the attacking unit, that's a bonus.

Re: ROUT!

Posted: Tue 27 Dec 2016 02:26
by FrangibleCover
Seryn wrote:
smyljr wrote:imagine if routed units automatically reversed/flew towards their spawn point?


Or just do it how RUSE (Another Eugen RTS) did it? Where they would REVERSE FROM THE DANGER..

Conceptually I sort of like this. Wargame is horrifying enough in human terms from our gods-eye view, The Third World War would be cataclysmic on the ground. Units very definitely should run away from overwhelming force or refuse to perform orders that are obviously going to get them killed (How many battle taxis have been lost in suicide scouting runs or swarmed into enemy units to split their targeting?). Obviously this would require some unit-based AI to indicate to the unit whether things have gotten too hot. Fusiliers should run from a BMPT, Fusiliers '90 could stand and fight. A T-80UM would be untroubled by an AMX-13 Harpon but should probably consider the better part of valour when faced by 50 of them.

The problem is that this would hugely change the face of the game and I really don't think what would come out at the other end would be as playable and fun as what we have now. Equally, I don't think half-arseing a routing mechanic where in vanishingly unlikely circumstances a unit will take leave of its senses and waltz merrily across the battlefield is the answer. Routing should either be done properly after countless hours of playtesting i.e. in Wargame 4 or should be removed entirely.

Stunned helicopters should be changed though. Let them fly off in a random direction, trying desperately to shake off the AA fire, rather than the current effect where the pilot's leg suddenly becomes extremely heavy when he panics. Frankly all of helicopter movement could use an overhaul but making helicopters only ever rout and other units only ever become stunned would do for now.

Re: ROUT!

Posted: Tue 27 Dec 2016 02:37
by Seryn
Killertomato wrote:
Seryn wrote:
smyljr wrote:imagine if routed units automatically reversed/flew towards their spawn point?


Or just do it how RUSE (Another Eugen RTS) did it? Where they would REVERSE FROM THE DANGER..


No, clearly it needs to drive at what's shooting at it.

If it leaves cover or turns to show the weakest armor to the attacking unit, that's a bonus.


In RUSE units would rout before they die and retreat (albeit at a reduced pace) from it's opponent (preferably getting behind allies) showing its front to the enemy, when they recover they will return to acting out their last order or just hold position. Never would they retreat with their rear to the enemy. So if the Wargame Rout AI would act like THAT then they could increase the rout chance. However units in RUSE Regenerated Health and they would ALWAYS rout before death.

In response to FrangibleCover: YES. It is unreasonable to expect any changes in RDs lifecycle, but WG4 can incorporate these changes. Also RUSE would tell you the possible outcome of the battle based on force multipliers. Sherman vs Maus? VERY HARD. 50 Shermans vs 1 Maus? VERY EASY. However it would be impossible for WG ever to use this so....

Re: ROUT!

Posted: Tue 27 Dec 2016 02:56
by Fade2Gray
If an infantryman takes off running when bullets and shrapnel are flying, he's just asking to get himself killed in the process.

Re: ROUT!

Posted: Tue 27 Dec 2016 05:22
by Seryn
Fade2Gray wrote:If an infantryman takes off running when bullets and shrapnel are flying, he's just asking to get himself killed in the process.


Well to be fair, In Wargame you actually use Infy. In RUSE you hardly ever used em unless Paras in town.

Re: ROUT!

Posted: Tue 27 Dec 2016 05:58
by KattiValk
Routing was a pain back in EE, annoying in ALB, and an almost amusing change of pace in RD.
Honestly, it's a good thing it's all but gone in RD. You have to accept the knowledge that Wargame places you inside the subconscious of every squad lead and vehicle commander under your control. The importance of hero units makes routing a massive can of worms that really isn't worth touching.

Currently, units only run if they're being absolutely battered by enemy threats, which coupled with the fact that it's generally cheap units in heavy grind combat, means it's not exactly a massive change to the game.

M4jor wrote:Thx, that sums up how the conquest community behaves towards anybody else in this board. I will use this as citation, may I?
Doesn't this better exemplify how the extreme end of "destruction only" players tend to like blaming things on the "conquest community"?

Re: ROUT!

Posted: Tue 27 Dec 2016 06:04
by smyljr
i am trying to keep this simple, even if it os a wargame 4 deal.

what if units retreated towards where they spawned from? or the nearest spawn point?

in all maps excluding russian roulette, units advance in a straight line towards the enemy.

if a routed unit presents its side towards a flanking opponent, then it should die, because it was flanked.

i forget, did ruse even have front/side armor values, or just 1?




ideally, if sight values are omniprescient, then units should rout away from the average location of all spotted units in 3000m.