M113 Minigun

captaincarnage
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M113 Minigun

Postby captaincarnage » Wed 28 Dec 2016 01:34

This transport is bad, it deserves a buff, in fact i would go as far as to describe it as easily the worst 10 point tracked transport in game. The closest transports it could be compared with are either the nm135 which is much better or some of the eastern block transports with recoilless rifles, though they at least have 2 fav unlike the m113.

Why is it bad?
1. It has 1 av only
2. The minigun is bad (worse in dps and suppression than the israeli zelda transport, btrd and anything really with multiple mg's)
3. Its only available to flamethrower troops which are rarely used outside of maybe a mech deck, even then they're a hard sell for a deck slot being so specialized.

I've tested this thing against infantry squads in forests and it doesn't perform well, its low suppression (36) and the need to reload after only a short burst makes this thing pretty useless, if you compare it DPS wise with either of the Israeli 5 point transports, one of which has 2 FAV it actually performs worse in terms of both kill time and suppression against infantry squads.

What can be done about them?

Easy fix, make them cost 5 points they wouldn't be the best 5 point transport in the game but they wouldn't be the worst. Also make them available to diggers and diggers 90 which suffer from having both limited utility and underwhelming transports and no one really uses them when commando's 90 get the job done better.

Harder fix, buff the minigun to the point where its actually a dangerous weapon, to do this it would need both higher suppression (55) and a longer burst cycle. This has been asked for repeatedly but nothing has ever been done about it, so i'm not holding my breath for something to change at this late stage in the game.

As the last patch introduced a completely pointless price buff for Anzac's ferret entac which was never used before and will never be used again, i would very much appreciate it if this could be given consideration for the token Anzac buff in the next patch :P
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby Fade2Gray » Wed 28 Dec 2016 06:00

A mini gun throwing out worse DPS than the Zelda seems...

wrong.
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Mike
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby Mike » Wed 28 Dec 2016 06:12

Fade2Gray wrote:A mini gun throwing out worse DPS than the Zelda seems...

wrong.


Eugen is fucking up and not following thier own rule of ROF > everything!
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby Seryn » Wed 28 Dec 2016 06:28

Mike wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:A mini gun throwing out worse DPS than the Zelda seems...

wrong.


Eugen is fucking up and not following thier own rule of ROF > everything!


what is this? Planetside 2 TR?!

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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby Killertomato » Wed 28 Dec 2016 07:17

Mike wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:A mini gun throwing out worse DPS than the Zelda seems...

wrong.


Eugen is fucking up and not following thier own rule of ROF > everything!


I guess ROF is inferior to gun number?

That wouldn't explain the "quad" PKT on the BTR-D tho.
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby another505 » Wed 28 Dec 2016 08:11

Fade2Gray wrote:A mini gun throwing out worse DPS than the Zelda seems...

wrong.

the zelda is honestly overperforming for a 5 pointer...... compare to some just carrying a single mg
i haven't tried out the minigun enough to comment though
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orcbuster
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby orcbuster » Wed 28 Dec 2016 08:40

3 independent mgs having more effect than 1 minigun in combat does not surprise me from a realism standpoint. Emphasis on independent though. Ability to cover several sectors and engage several targets with automatic fire independently can do wonders in a firefight.

Agree that zelda should probably be 10 points though and m113 with minigun be buffed to 5
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby codextero » Wed 28 Dec 2016 09:00

orcbuster wrote:3 independent mgs having more effect than 1 minigun in combat does not surprise me from a realism standpoint. Emphasis on independent though. Ability to cover several sectors and engage several targets with automatic fire independently can do wonders in a firefight.

Agree that zelda should probably be 10 points though and m113 with minigun be buffed to 5


Well, other than the fact that the 3 machine guns on the zelda are apparently fired by the driver, the gunner, and the gunner's pet monkey, while the minigun would only be handled by the gunner.

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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby QUAD » Wed 28 Dec 2016 09:02

Killertomato wrote:
Mike wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:A mini gun throwing out worse DPS than the Zelda seems...

wrong.


Eugen is fucking up and not following thier own rule of ROF > everything!


I guess ROF is inferior to gun number?

That wouldn't explain the "quad" PKT on the BTR-D tho.


So a Hermarvsman squad with two BARs should have greater RoF than a standard PKM?
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orcbuster
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby orcbuster » Wed 28 Dec 2016 09:16

codextero wrote:
orcbuster wrote:3 independent mgs having more effect than 1 minigun in combat does not surprise me from a realism standpoint. Emphasis on independent though. Ability to cover several sectors and engage several targets with automatic fire independently can do wonders in a firefight.

Agree that zelda should probably be 10 points though and m113 with minigun be buffed to 5


Well, other than the fact that the 3 machine guns on the zelda are apparently fired by the driver, the gunner, and the gunner's pet monkey, while the minigun would only be handled by the gunner.


You don't know much about the M113 do ya? :P As a former frequent occupant I can tell you that putting in a few extra occupants standing up in the rear hatch isn't much of a challenge as that space isn't usually filled with anything (does make ingress and egress more challenging though but still miles better than most wargame APCs). Had company CO and his radioman ride with us on exercise once in such a manner. Of course it gets even more cramped and the hate from the open hatch rendering the the heater useless in -30 C° is very real.

Now wether or not you want to use that much personell and equipment to get a marginally superior firesupport vehicle while getting a slightly worse APC is a worthy trade is a matter of situation and preferace. Israelis, US and vietnamese liked doing it.

Also mid hatch gunner isn't called gunner, he's the vehicle commander.
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