M113 Minigun

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FrangibleCover
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby FrangibleCover » Wed 28 Dec 2016 10:56

orcbuster wrote:3 independent mgs having more effect than 1 minigun in combat does not surprise me from a realism standpoint. Emphasis on independent though. Ability to cover several sectors and engage several targets with automatic fire independently can do wonders in a firefight.

Agree that zelda should probably be 10 points though and m113 with minigun be buffed to 5

I'm pretty okay with the DPS of the MGs being higher but the suppressive effect of the Minigun should definitely be buffed. Isn't basically the whole point that they sound bloody terrifying?

Also if we're not going so far as to hand them out to regular infantry could we hand them out to MRAAW squads, who are kinda-sorta engineering teams and also somewhat more useful, especially alongside a high suppression transport, than flamethrowers.
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby urogard » Wed 28 Dec 2016 11:04

orcbuster wrote:Agree that zelda should probably be 10 points though and m113 with minigun be buffed to 5

This so much

Zelda can't remain 5 pts with 3 effin mg's when 10% KVPT causes a 5 pts premium

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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby Fade2Gray » Wed 28 Dec 2016 11:13

orcbuster wrote:You don't know much about the M113 do ya? :P As a former frequent occupant I can tell you that putting in a few extra occupants standing up in the rear hatch isn't much of a challenge as that space isn't usually filled with anything (does make ingress and egress more challenging though but still miles better than most wargame APCs). Had company CO and his radioman ride with us on exercise once in such a manner. Of course it gets even more cramped and the hate from the open hatch rendering the the heater useless in -30 C° is very real.

Now wether or not you want to use that much personell and equipment to get a marginally superior firesupport vehicle while getting a slightly worse APC is a worthy trade is a matter of situation and preferace. Israelis, US and vietnamese liked doing it.

Also mid hatch gunner isn't called gunner, he's the vehicle commander.


tl;dr: rarely are there extra guys throw onto those extra guns in normal combat ops. Once everyone discounts that can, there will be no one to crew the extra guns. The VC will man the heavy and that's it.
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby smyljr » Wed 28 Dec 2016 15:52

orcbuster wrote:3 independent mgs having more effect than 1 minigun in combat does not surprise me from a realism standpoint. Emphasis on independent though. Ability to cover several sectors and engage several targets with automatic fire independently can do wonders in a firefight.

Agree that zelda should probably be 10 points though and m113 with minigun be buffed to 5


make it happen orcbuster
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby homerfcb » Wed 28 Dec 2016 17:01

smyljr wrote:
orcbuster wrote:3 independent mgs having more effect than 1 minigun in combat does not surprise me from a realism standpoint. Emphasis on independent though. Ability to cover several sectors and engage several targets with automatic fire independently can do wonders in a firefight.

Agree that zelda should probably be 10 points though and m113 with minigun be buffed to 5


make it happen orcbuster

Meh... Zelda is not worth 10 points, both(Zelda and Minigun M113) should be 5 points
The big nerf whiners thread, much controversal stuff, some suggestions and some more stuff, also with a big Patriot range explanation Just klick me, or go here viewtopic.php?f=155&t=48184

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Markenzwieback
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby Markenzwieback » Wed 28 Dec 2016 17:08

urogard wrote:
orcbuster wrote:Agree that zelda should probably be 10 points though and m113 with minigun be buffed to 5

This so much

Zelda can't remain 5 pts with 3 effin mg's when 10% KVPT causes a 5 pts premium

Yes, Zelda is totally worth 10 points when you got quad-PKT instant stun at 5 pts as well as 20mm auto cannon or recoilless rifle transports at 10. :roll:

Zelda is indeed very effective for a 5 pts transport, but also not justifiable at 10 pts.

homerfcb wrote:Meh... Zelda is not worth 10 points, both(Zelda and Minigun M113) should be 5 points

I second this.
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby Razzmann » Wed 28 Dec 2016 17:18

Implying Quad PKT deals more damage than the 3 Zelda MGs :lol:
Make it give an avail nerf if you use it since Israel has another 5 pointer.

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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby Bougnas » Wed 28 Dec 2016 17:21

Razzmann wrote:Implying Quad PKT deals more damage than the 3 Zelda MGs :lol:
Make it give an avail nerf if you use it since Israel has another 5 pointer.


Maybe buff armor to 3/3/1/1 to make up for the lower avail, as the applique armor is able to resist to 14.5mm rounds.
Other variants such as the Giraffe I-TOW and the Machbet could get it for free, alongside a range nerf to 2625m on the machbet (maybe a small acc/stab nerf as well) but deletion of the RAD trait.
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby RedFive » Wed 28 Dec 2016 17:37

Miniguns in general should have infinite burst length, they should pillage infantry. Making the M113 Minigun 5pts and available to Diggers '75/'90 would be interesting, too. Right now there's little reason to take Diggers when Commandos are so much better, a useful fire support transport might shake that up a bit.

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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby Markenzwieback » Wed 28 Dec 2016 19:02

Razzmann wrote:Implying Quad PKT deals more damage than the 3 Zelda MGs :lol:
Make it give an avail nerf if you use it since Israel has another 5 pointer.

I'd say Quad PKT is pretty much equal to the one Browning and two MAGs on the Zelda. At least at forest fighting range (which is the one that matters). Obviously turrets are an advantage, but regarding DPS, I think they are comparable.

Can't test it right now though, as I am not at home.
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