M113 Minigun

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another505
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby another505 » Thu 29 Dec 2016 08:13

wargamer1985 wrote:=
Thank you, we take pride in our cooking and terrible driving.

drivers are fine here too. I meant hell as in my extended family, they are driving me nuts, all indecisive yet vocal in their opinion, all with differing demands, and i am the only one in the 7 who can speak fluent english (1 of them was meh in english and another could only speak basics with heavy accent )

so i have to translate all the time but they never listen as one of them likes to never listen and just ask me again....... one has hearing problems, and all 6 of them likes to take photos with their phone as they walk so a 3 min walk can go to 10 minute, so they are all around the fucking place taking pics as i try to explain them the situation.


freaking eh, i felt like smashing my skull on a wall this morning. We went to pike market in seattle, i explained to them the plan the night before, we go there early, walk around the markets for like ~20 min before the clam chowder place opens at 11am, eat there, and then go to the gum wall and leave. They accepted my plans, alright, great! Got there, we walk together reaaaaallly fucking slow as they take photos endlessly with their iphones, then they decide to split. We splitted into 4 out of nowhere and went their separate ways. So i go and get food by myself, and extremely disappointed ( i love seafoods) that i couldnt eat clam chowder because it was already packed thanks to their photography session. When we group together, they asked me, whats for lunch and where's the gum wall. I felt like bitch slapping all my relatives since IT WAS MY FUCKING PLAN TO GO THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE BUT THEY DECIDED TO SPLIT. I gave them all the cold shoulders and decided to go to the museum of pop culture so i can walk alone. Really enjoyed my silence.

A little revenge since none of them, could understand the reference in museum of pop culture, so they were stuck there for 2 hours looking at stuffs without context.

Then this fucking evening. We all agree to eat one specific restaurant, we got to the area. They decide to check out another restaurant in the area first. Alright... i opened the door, they stalled with their indecisiveness, stood there, right in the open as the waitress is staring at me awkwardly. They decide to go back to the original restaurant that we decided beforehand, okay okay, sure. Got there, as i about to tell the waitress how many seats, they told me to wait, they want to see the menu first. So again, i stood there awkwardly. I sat down with my 2 cousins about my age(the other 2 who can speak somewhat english). Then the relatives told me, what do you guys want to eat?
"I don't mind what to eat, just eat here.'
They mumble to themselves again.
'Want to eat here?'
'Is you guys who are stalling, we decided this restaurant beforehand, why not just go here.'

They talk to themselves again and decide to go back to the other restaurant that i stood dumbfounded in front of the waitress........ so we fucking go back!

Is worse than taking care a bunch of kindergartens, i tell ya. HELL IS OTHER PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY RELATIVES SINCE YOU CAN'T TELL THEM TO STFU AND STOP BITCHING
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Zero_Ecm
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby Zero_Ecm » Thu 29 Dec 2016 09:01

Oh, please tell more about mi113 minigun problems to MTLB with 23mm AC.

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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby codextero » Thu 29 Dec 2016 09:19

another505 wrote:-snip-


I believe this is yet another case of an A/CBC diagnosed with psychosis due to acute tourist relatives syndrome.

Unfortunately there is no cure and it is terminal.

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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby jhfts » Thu 29 Dec 2016 09:26

captaincarnage wrote:This transport is bad, it deserves a buff, in fact i would go as far as to describe it as easily the worst 10 point tracked transport in game. The closest transports it could be compared with are either the nm135 which is much better or some of the eastern block transports with recoilless rifles, though they at least have 2 fav unlike the m113.

Why is it bad?
1. It has 1 av only
2. The minigun is bad (worse in dps and suppression than the israeli zelda transport, btrd and anything really with multiple mg's)
3. Its only available to flamethrower troops which are rarely used outside of maybe a mech deck, even then they're a hard sell for a deck slot being so specialized.

I've tested this thing against infantry squads in forests and it doesn't perform well, its low suppression (36) and the need to reload after only a short burst makes this thing pretty useless, if you compare it DPS wise with either of the Israeli 5 point transports, one of which has 2 FAV it actually performs worse in terms of both kill time and suppression against infantry squads.

What can be done about them?

Easy fix, make them cost 5 points they wouldn't be the best 5 point transport in the game but they wouldn't be the worst. Also make them available to diggers and diggers 90 which suffer from having both limited utility and underwhelming transports and no one really uses them when commando's 90 get the job done better.

Harder fix, buff the minigun to the point where its actually a dangerous weapon, to do this it would need both higher suppression (55) and a longer burst cycle. This has been asked for repeatedly but nothing has ever been done about it, so i'm not holding my breath for something to change at this late stage in the game.


I use the flamethrower / M113 minigun combination quite a bit in all of many Commonweath decks. It's extremely tricky to use, but I don't think that it's as badly gimped as you make out. I've found that two or more Minigun-armed M113s, provided that they can get into position, tend to cut into enemy infantry squads like buzzsaws. Suppression is excellent - low per shot, but high overall given the ROF - and will frequently stun-lock enemy squads on the receiving end of their fire. Any negative comparisons with the Israelis would be something that I would take as evidence that the Israel is over-buffed, rather than as ANZAC being under-buffed.

I'd be on side for an expansion of availability to line infantry, since ANZAC doesn't have any IFVs, but I'm not sold on the need for a price reduction. Eugen's formula on base-tier APCs seems to be that anything above and beyond the standard 'tracked and a MG' gets at least +5 pts. Wheels or better guns always get a 10 pts price. Even the poor OT-62B, armed with the nigh-useless Tarasnice RCL and a mere eight rounds gets nerfed to 10 pts. The minigun is undeniably an improvement over a GPMG, so... 10 pts.

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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby another505 » Thu 29 Dec 2016 09:36

codextero wrote:
another505 wrote:-snip-


I believe this is yet another case of an A/CBC diagnosed with psychosis due to acute tourist relatives syndrome.

Unfortunately there is no cure and it is terminal.

Oh death , sweet release of death..... please come.
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby Razzmann » Thu 29 Dec 2016 11:37

another505 wrote:
codextero wrote:
another505 wrote:-snip-


I believe this is yet another case of an A/CBC diagnosed with psychosis due to acute tourist relatives syndrome.

Unfortunately there is no cure and it is terminal.

Oh death , sweet release of death..... please come.

That would not have happened if you went on the trip with me :evil:

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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby captaincarnage » Thu 29 Dec 2016 15:09

jhfts wrote:
I use the flamethrower / M113 minigun combination quite a bit in all of many Commonweath decks. It's extremely tricky to use, but I don't think that it's as badly gimped as you make out. I've found that two or more Minigun-armed M113s, provided that they can get into position, tend to cut into enemy infantry squads like buzzsaws. Suppression is excellent - low per shot, but high overall given the ROF - and will frequently stun-lock enemy squads on the receiving end of their fire. Any negative comparisons with the Israelis would be something that I would take as evidence that the Israel is over-buffed, rather than as ANZAC being under-buffed.

I'd be on side for an expansion of availability to line infantry, since ANZAC doesn't have any IFVs, but I'm not sold on the need for a price reduction. Eugen's formula on base-tier APCs seems to be that anything above and beyond the standard 'tracked and a MG' gets at least +5 pts. Wheels or better guns always get a 10 pts price. Even the poor OT-62B, armed with the nigh-useless Tarasnice RCL and a mere eight rounds gets nerfed to 10 pts. The minigun is undeniably an improvement over a GPMG, so... 10 pts.


The fact that you use it does not make it any less overpriced i'm afraid, its objectively a bad unit for its current price.

It has worse protection and or dps than a number of 5 point transports and all 10 point tracked transports, that is reasonable grounds for a buff whatever your personal opinion may be.

Saying it's good against infantry advancing in the open without fire support is more an indictment of your opponent than any positive reflection of the utility of the unit, the buffallo IV transport is actually better than it is and no one in their right mind is going to say that should cost 10 points.
I hope your buratino's die screaming.

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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby Bougnas » Thu 29 Dec 2016 15:28

Many ANZAC fire support units are relatively overpriced or undermodeled IMO.
Outside of the M113 Minigun, there's also the M113A1 FSV that costs 15pts while being inferior to most if not all 10pt FSVs and that lacks a M1919 MG (adds some DPS/suppression at close range).

The RCL jeeps are messed up because the wombat wasn't used on a rover and the actual RCL jeep used by the aussies was a land rover (that should cost 10pt btw) with the M40A1 106mm RCL (6 rounds) plus a M1919 MG added by the 5/7 RAR (Royal Australian Regiment) that designed a lot of prototype FSVs like the M113 Milan, the M113 30/50 with M40A1 RCL (missing) or the rover Milan with a MAG 58 as well.

The LAV 25 variants besides the TOW 2 one don't have the late bushmaster nor medium optics althought they had thermals (the muhricans could get it as well).

The M113 30/50 misses the pintle mounted .30 cal.

The Centurion Mk.V/1 is desperately bad althought it could get higher ROF (like all Centurions and M48s), better accuracy (addition of the ranging gun for aim) and autonomy (450L fuel tank so 600km autonomy like the canadian centurion), and the leopard AS1 should be a clone of the Leopard C1 with an MG3 (same SABCA FCS ).

ANZAC could be such a better fire support faction, but it gets overpriced units and the air tab is utter crap althought the Mirage IIIO (A), F/A-18A, Strikemaster and MB 339CB could be greatly improved (see Xeno thread).


TL:DR: I find your lack of MGs disturbing :evil:
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby wargamer1985 » Thu 29 Dec 2016 20:00

another505 wrote:Is worse than taking care a bunch of kindergartens, i tell ya. HELL IS OTHER PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY RELATIVES SINCE YOU CAN'T TELL THEM TO STFU AND STOP BITCHING

Just drive over and drop them at Alki Beach in West-Seattle and they can sight-see, and get some good food at the same time. All the while you can munch on some good seafood at two of the local sea food restaurants or do whatever you wish, if your relatives are interested in finding sea creatures you can go over to Constellation Park (we call it rocky beach) where there is everything from crabs to Octupi. Plus, you could meet me there! Isn't that what you always wanted? :D

(If you want some Seattle tips we should probably continue this in a PM)
APPLY TO THE GLORIOUS CULT OF THE WARHAWK! LIBERATING NAZIS SINCE 1939!
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Re: M113 Minigun

Postby another505 » Thu 29 Dec 2016 21:58

wargamer1985 wrote:
another505 wrote:Is worse than taking care a bunch of kindergartens, i tell ya. HELL IS OTHER PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY RELATIVES SINCE YOU CAN'T TELL THEM TO STFU AND STOP BITCHING

Just drive over and drop them at Alki Beach in West-Seattle and they can sight-see, and get some good food at the same time. All the while you can munch on some good seafood at two of the local sea food restaurants or do whatever you wish, if your relatives are interested in finding sea creatures you can go over to Constellation Park (we call it rocky beach) where there is everything from crabs to Octupi. Plus, you could meet me there! Isn't that what you always wanted? :D

(If you want some Seattle tips we should probably continue this in a PM)

Wait , you re from seattle ? Lol

Sorry, tight schedule :( . I dont have the full authority of where to go, i couldnt even go wizards of the coast office where they make magic cards ( a tragedy) we are road tripping down to LA and maybe visit stalker lolz, currently im at portland premium something outlet....sitting in starbucks

Is going to be a long day with the ladies...... they are mostly interested in shopping. I had to motivated their asses to go to chihuly glass museum. Great place! Always interested in arts and craftsmanship
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