Fine tuning Yugoslavia

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Azaz3l
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Re: Fine tuning Yugoslavia

Postby Azaz3l » Wed 15 Feb 2017 16:56

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HrcAk47
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Re: Fine tuning Yugoslavia

Postby HrcAk47 » Wed 15 Feb 2017 17:01

Yup, that's a M-84, I think the 5th series. You can tell by the absence of Luna IR projector (only first 50 tanks had it) and the difference of the meteosensor mast.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

SMB Yugoslavia Retexture Mod, now released, v.1.0

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Re: Fine tuning Yugoslavia

Postby LupusVulpes » Thu 24 Aug 2017 10:09

Just asking, is anyone giving some love to the T.O. (Teritorijalna Odbrana) in game, or does nobody use it? ;)
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NoVegas
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Re: Fine tuning Yugoslavia

Postby NoVegas » Thu 24 Aug 2017 11:43

I recently purchased the REDs double expansion and was rather disapponted by Yugoslavia. I mainly purchased it to unlock Finland who brought new elements to the REDs. Yugoslavia on the other hand contained a lot of USSR vehicles, Planes, Helos, Tanks. More so then expected from a country that recieved equipment from both Warsaw and NATO. Worse yet is how the Yugoslavian army had a lot of its own equipment but it seems the game push's a lot of that aside in favor of yet more USSR stuff to compensate. The BOV had many variants that you dont find in game for one example.
-Granicari seem expensive for there stat line (at this price i expect 10 strength or better training)
-Senke are a bit expensive for only a strength of 2
-BOV-3 and BOV-30 should be available in vehicle section
-BOV M11 should be available for recon vehicle
-MRČKB BOV-3 should be available as a command vehicle
-HS M09 BOV-3 should be available for support
-M18 Hellcat should be available to its arsenal
-M36 “Topovnjaca” should be available
-SU-100 should be available

As it stands i dont think Yugoslavia was worth paying for the expansion due to the amount of re-used USSR equipment in there list. but i still recommend RED Double expansion for Finland.

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Re: Fine tuning Yugoslavia

Postby XanderTuron » Fri 25 Aug 2017 02:23

NoVegas wrote:-Granicari seem expensive for there stat line (at this price i expect 10 strength or better training)
-Senke are a bit expensive for only a strength of 2

Granicari have the same price as every other 5-man regular training very good optics recon squad. Senke essentially being an improved version of Recce, cost more (Recce, along with every other 2 strength sniper team are 25 points). As well, while Yugoslavia doesn't have top tier everything, as a package, it is one of the best stand alone nations in the game. As well, it really doesn't have that many units that are direct copies of Soviet equipment and a lot are straight up improvements; as well, when dealing with Redfor, most of everybody's equipment is going to be Soviet or Soviet based, just like how much of Bluefor runs Leopard 1s, M113s, and M109s.
My mouth is moving, but nothing relevant is coming out. Also I cannot guarantee that my research is perfect or even remotely accurate.

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Re: Fine tuning Yugoslavia

Postby HrcAk47 » Fri 25 Aug 2017 07:00

NoVegas wrote:I recently purchased the REDs double expansion and was rather disapponted by Yugoslavia. I mainly purchased it to unlock Finland who brought new elements to the REDs. Yugoslavia on the other hand contained a lot of USSR vehicles, Planes, Helos, Tanks. More so then expected from a country that recieved equipment from both Warsaw and NATO. Worse yet is how the Yugoslavian army had a lot of its own equipment but it seems the game push's a lot of that aside in favor of yet more USSR stuff to compensate.


Original proposal list contained ~260 units. It was cut down to 90 most essential, with the most iconic units retained. What in particular are you missing here?


The BOV had many variants that you dont find in game for one example.


Actually, all the cardinal variants that were in the timeframe - already exist in the game. Only exception is BOV M-86A, which is armed with PKT. There could be some field mods like BOV with LOTA turret or the one with BGA M-93, but they are post-1991.

-Granicari seem expensive for there stat line (at this price i expect 10 strength or better training)


No you don't. Look at Razvedka and Grenzer. While, arguably, better inf recon squads could have been made, Yugoslav recon tab is still very strong. Czechs provide good recon squads.

-Senke are a bit expensive for only a strength of 2


They are a more powerful Recce squad, and have the best possible transport for their role - Gazelle, which is very small and very fast.

-BOV-3 and BOV-30 should be available in vehicle section


Nope. They are AA, not FSV. At least in the timeframe.

-BOV M11 should be available for recon vehicle


Lol what, thats 2011
-MRČKB BOV-3 should be available as a command vehicle


Nope.

-HS M09 BOV-3 should be available for support


This too. You do know there are timeframe limits?

-M18 Hellcat should be available to its arsenal


But it is. See SO-76 Helket.

-M36 “Topovnjaca” should be available


This too. See SO-90 Džekson.

-SU-100 should be available


Yeah, this could have been made. But who'd ever use it? Jackson is just flat out superior, and was actually in active use, unlike SU-100 (SO-100 M-44).

As it stands i dont think Yugoslavia was worth paying for the expansion due to the amount of re-used USSR equipment in there list. but i still recommend RED Double expansion for Finland.


These are words I never expected to hear on these forums, but okay. De gustibus non est disputandum, and all that jazz.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

SMB Yugoslavia Retexture Mod, now released, v.1.0

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Re: Fine tuning Yugoslavia

Postby NoVegas » Fri 25 Aug 2017 08:29

All Valid point except the timeline thing... i noticed the whole timeline thing seems to be a bit subjective as the game takes place 1991-92 era yet there is inconsistency on what year they pull real world units for game use. Also every vehicle i mentioned does exist in the 80-90s era, some just as prototypes though.

-BOV-3 and BOV-30 are AA but i point to the Praga as a AA thats in the vehicle list, also the USSR has the ZSU-23 in the both supp and Vehicle. All these vehicles were designed as AA, some just better at it then others.

-BOV M11 was a mistake, i mean the BOV M-86 should be available as a stand alone recon vehicle

-I see no reason the MRČKB BOV-3 cant be a command vehicle when the Czechoslovakian have the VSOT-64A/R2

-Cant find a manufacture date on the HS M09 BOV-3 but i remember seeing a prototype from the early 90s era...

-Why isnt the Praga M-53 available for Yugoslavia

Mostly im just ranting as im upset about the amount of USSR gear in the Yugoslavian list as i expected to see more of a stand alone Yugoslavian list or a list that was more of the mix of old NATO equipment with USSR equipment. Small things like making the BOV a standard troop transport option or availability to take more BOV's or even more NATO gear to mix the list up more then as it currently stands.
Last edited by NoVegas on Fri 25 Aug 2017 09:01, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Fine tuning Yugoslavia

Postby steppewolf » Fri 25 Aug 2017 08:55

Yugoslavia have plenty of locally designed stuff, this was one of the main reason it was voted. But you can run a Yugo national deck with less than 15% Soviet weaponry.

If you think there is too much Soviet stuff, just look at DDR :)

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HrcAk47
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Re: Fine tuning Yugoslavia

Postby HrcAk47 » Fri 25 Aug 2017 09:58

NoVegas wrote:All Valid point except the timeline thing... i noticed the whole timeline thing seems to be a bit subjective as the game takes place 1991-92 era yet there is inconsistency on what year they pull real world units for game use. Also every vehicle i mentioned does exist in the 80-90s era, some just as prototypes though.


There's no proper date for when "shit hits the fan", but taking stuff from 2010s is a bit too much.

-BOV-3 and BOV-30 are AA but i point to the Praga as a AA thats in the vehicle list, also the USSR has the ZSU-23 in the both supp and Vehicle. All these vehicles were designed as AA, some just better at it then others.


There were 3 types of Praga in Yugoslav use.

PAST 30/2 M-53/59 Praga - stock option with mechanical sights. By the start of 1980s, it had been declared woefully obsolete for antiaircraft duty, and the crews were mostly trained in ground or antihelo engagements. Featured.

PAST 30/2 M-53/59/70 J-171A F010 Praga - improved version that uses the J-171A "Jota" fire control system (the same one seen in BOV-3), very agile power traverse and elevation, and a much stronger, 152 hp FAMOS F010 engine. This one could dakka dakka at planes. Not featured because there's BOV-30.

PAST 30/2 M-53/85 LRG Praga - Super Praga with BOFI electrooptical targeting system, laser rangefinder, datalinks to Žirafa radar - in short, system brought up to state-of-the-art status. It is seen as "PAST Izvidjač" ingame, but stats are a bit off.

-BOV M11 was a mistake, i mean the BOV M-86 should be available as a stand alone recon vehicle


It is even better. Its a recon vehicle with recon infantry inside. Neat, huh?

-I see no reason the MRČKB BOV-3 cant be a command vehicle when the Czechoslovakian have the VSOT-64A/R2


Here's the basic gestalt. 1. Its a proto from 2010s. 2. BRDM-2U does the same thing, and was used in the timeframe.

-Cant find a manufacture date on the HS M09 BOV-3 but i remember seeing a prototype from the early 90s era...


It didn't, trust me. It is Yugoimports fantasy. Devs were interested in it, though.

-Why isnt the Praga M-53 available for Yugoslavia


It is. Two flavors, actually.

Mostly im just ranting as im upset about the amount of USSR gear in the Yugoslavian list as i expected to see more of a stand alone Yugoslavian list or a list that was more of the mix of old NATO equipment with USSR equipment. Small things like making the BOV a standard troop transport option or availability to take more BOV's or even more NATO gear to mix the list up more then as it currently stands.


I do agree that BOV should have been available as 10 pts wheels, but it is one of "designed weaknesses" of Yugoslavia - bad moto opener, bad helo options...

Yugoslavia is one of the nations with the most indigenous kit on entire REDFOR. And besides, there's nearly everything from the American military aid from the '50s. Priest, M47 Patton, Greyhound, Sabre Dog, M5 Halftrack, Hellcat, Jackson...

What more of NATO kit would you like? What did we even have that's not in?
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

SMB Yugoslavia Retexture Mod, now released, v.1.0

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Re: Fine tuning Yugoslavia

Postby NoVegas » Fri 25 Aug 2017 10:25

I thought there was an artillery variant of the Praga?

Also i agree if i just had more BOV's i would be happier...that or more Praga's. just some way to make the list less USSR feely. Im still upset that there is no BOV troop transport option and instead they just use re-branded USSR transports

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