Leave no man behind: WGermany

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Akkku
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Akkku » Fri 20 Jan 2017 21:26

codextero wrote:
Capion wrote:
captaincarnage wrote:Jaegers are still not the worst 15 point line infantry in game.

There are examples on both red and blue which are as bad or worse.

Why should Jaegers get special treatment,...?


1: Yeah, they are.

2: No, there arent.

3: Because WGermany needs a buff and not a small one and this could be one. There are other ways. "Sifting" (?) cant be that hard.


I'd like to direct your attention to Zhanshi 85, Pansarskytte 75, or Syoujyu Butai 90. Zhanshi 85 gets 4 more AP, but much less accuracy and has a standardized MG. Pansarskytte 75 and Syoujyu Butai 90 have 2 more AP and 5% more accuracy, but also a standardized MG.


4 more Ap is worth a lot mor than the acc.
Zhanshi 85 has 5 excellent transport options.
You see if you were actually reading Capion's posts, he would not need to quoted himself all the time.
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codextero
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby codextero » Fri 20 Jan 2017 21:31

Akkku wrote:4 more Ap is worth a lot mor than the acc.
Zhanshi 85 has 5 excellent transport options.
You see if you were actually reading Capion's posts, he would not need to quoted himself all the time.


4AP is worth slightly more than the 15% accuracy (effectively 40% more CTH for Jager), but it's definitely not worth more than that and the MG3 combined.

I encourage you to test Zhanshi 85 vs Jagers, and see how badly Zhanshi 85 lose.

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Capion
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Capion » Fri 20 Jan 2017 21:39

codextero wrote:I'd like to direct your attention to Zhanshi 85, Pansarskytte 75, or Syoujyu Butai 90. Zhanshi 85 gets 4 more AP, but much less accuracy and has a standardized MG. Pansarskytte 75 and Syoujyu Butai 90 have 2 more AP and 5% more accuracy, but also a standardized MG.

MG3 remains about 40% better...


Zhanshi '85
ZSD-63C, ZSD-90, WZ-551 and have 4 (!) more AP. Worse accuracy is negliable at the ranges you use line inf, much more so if inevitably panicked.

Pansarskytte '75:
STRV 9040 (for crying out loud) and why would anybody ever take them, since Pansarskytte '90 are 15 pts too?

Syoujyu Butai 90
WAPC (rofl)

And the MG 3 is about 20 % better than the standard MGs since the rebalance and the stunning isnt working as good anymore since the BR got nerfed.

Pls dont make it so easy.

Also:
Can we get away from the Jäger? Shock Deckungsgruppe with G3 in Marder 2 (15 pts) anyone? Would be flavor, would be realistic, would be good but not completely unbalanced. Ildstoddegruppen '85 would still have better AT for being none-shock and have a 2 AV 5 pointer for the same price. SMAWS having much better AT and LVTP-7A1 while being 5 pts more expensive.

Edit: Too late again. Need to improve my tipping.
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nande
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby nande » Fri 20 Jan 2017 21:53

Capion wrote:not completely unbalanced
thank you for making that clear

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FoxZz
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby FoxZz » Fri 20 Jan 2017 21:55

I think Capion that you should make a list of concrete buffs you want to be implemented. Otherwise your thread looks like a whining rant. Write a precise list with what you want to change with the new stats, new price, etc. It would be more constructive and allow the discussion to go beyond the 10 point Jager issue.

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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby codextero » Fri 20 Jan 2017 21:56

Capion wrote:And the MG 3 is about 20 % better than the standard MGs since the rebalance and the stunning isnt working as good anymore since the BR got nerfed.


40% better is pretty easy to calculate. The displayed RPM of the machine gun is 10x the actual amount of rolls/second that the MG gets. With all other factors being equal between MG3 and the standard MGs, only rolls/minute matters. MG3 rolls 59.4 times a minute, the standards roll 42.8 times a minute. 59.4/42.8=1.387. 38.7% better, which rounds into ~40%.

During the burst, MG3 shoots once every .8 seconds, standards shoot once every second. MG3 also reloads after 16 shots, rather than 9. This means that in a regular fight, MG3 will never stop shooting, while the standards stop after 9 seconds. Since the infantry unit is likely shaken by then, it will probably never get to shoot again, as the reload time between bursts balloons to ~10 seconds.

BR stunning was a bigger problem with shock BR, as they land about twice as many hits as line BR. For Jagers, the MG3 is 80% of the suppression while the G3 is 20%.

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Capion
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Capion » Fri 20 Jan 2017 21:57

FoxZz wrote:I think Capion that you should make a list of concrete buffs you want to be implemented. Otherwise your thread looks like a whining rant. Write a precise list with what you want to change with the new stats, new price, etc. It would be more constructive and allow the discussion to go beyond the 10 point Jager issue.


Yeah, no offense (really), but I think I live with that. Also I am asking what could/should be implemented. 1 or 2 options would be enough.

codextero wrote:
40% better is pretty easy to calculate. ...


Line MG 3 DPS: 0,099
Line standard MG DPS: 0,071

Line MG 3 suppr: 54,455
Line G3 suppr: 10,0

nande wrote:
Capion wrote:not completely unbalanced
thank you for making that clear


Well its good, thats the point. If I want another mediocre unit added I just wait for the next installment.
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Erwin12824
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Erwin12824 » Fri 20 Jan 2017 22:26

didn't someone say a long time ago that jager is actually elite infantry?
maybe people can rename the line infantry as well

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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Lord Helmchen » Fri 20 Jan 2017 22:35

Erwin12824 wrote:didn't someone say a long time ago that jager is actually elite infantry?
maybe people can rename the line infantry as well

Nah, shock at best. But it depends on how you define shock tbh.
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codextero
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby codextero » Fri 20 Jan 2017 22:49

Capion wrote:Line MG 3 DPS: 0,099
Line standard MG DPS: 0,071


Lets just neglect that MG3 has a 16 round burst and Standard MG's have 9, because burst length doesn't matter and that's why Type 73 on Bochongsu is such a great MG.

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