Leave no man behind: WGermany

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QUAD
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby QUAD » Sun 12 Feb 2017 04:45

MARDER wrote:
QUAD wrote:On paper the Bradley is a poor IFV but in practice it gets the job done. The biggest drawback is it's high profile and distinct audio signature.



And that it cant use its Tow´s when angled and not standing on flat ground, the turret sides are poorly armord and .50 cal can pen it.
Its a huge target, the bonus is it has A FCS and stabs and laser range finders.


Laser accurate fire support and retarded optics plus the ability to support armor on open terrain. And the infantry squad it carries is armed to the teeth with ATGM and M249.

Marder has very close range ATGM, better profile/armor, and inferior everything else. (Except dismounts, but even then Javelin/Dragon adds another dimension to a rifle squad.)
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby hansbroger » Sun 12 Feb 2017 05:32

wargamer1985 wrote:
hansbroger wrote:Tankograd thinks the BMP-1/BMP-2 would be rather resistant to 20mm cannon fire from the front at most combat ranges.

People forget that the frontal arc was designed to handle 20mm cannon fire (until DM-63) and the turret of BMP-2 was still resistant to the DM-63 at ranges greater than 1000m.

The BMP-1 was at best resistant to 20mm fire, with only the frontal glacis providing actual protection. It wasn't until the BMP-2 that the series really became 20mm resistant, and on the verge of 20mm proof.


Well the BMP-1 in early service was convincingly resistant to 20mm HVAP at ranges greater than 500m and really only became vulnerable in the frontal arc at longer ranges with the appearance of DM-43 and DM-63 APDS in the 1980s. BMP-2 was slightly more resilient but not by much. Side protection of course on either was only against splinters and small arms. BMP-1 especially had close to a decade of being reasonably protected against most weapons it would encounter on enemy APC's and recon vehicles.

Now when it comes to RD I'm pretty sure only the Marder 1A1 is using HVAP and that the rest of the series is at least using the DM-43 APDS or better. But the frontal armor of the BMP-1 was no slouch at least until the early 1980s.
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Nathan des Lessings
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Nathan des Lessings » Sun 12 Feb 2017 15:55

hansbroger wrote: But the frontal armor of the BMP-1 was no slouch at least until the early 1980s.

No slouch, but penetrable for most western ifv guns after the 70s.
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Weer » Sun 12 Feb 2017 16:44

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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Nathan des Lessings » Sun 12 Feb 2017 17:08


Well even on the lower front plateing the effective amour of the marder is better than the effective amour of the bmp 1.
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby hansbroger » Sun 12 Feb 2017 19:48

Nathan des Lessings wrote:

Well even on the lower front plateing the effective amour of the marder is better than the effective amour of the bmp 1.

No one is saying the BMP-1 is better armored than Marder that's for sure. However the BMP-1 was resistant to the HVAP used by the Marder and AMX-10P until the APDS started showing up in the 1980s. For wargame purposes that would only really affect the Marder 1A1 and AMX-10P.
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby wargamer1985 » Sun 12 Feb 2017 20:20


I think that may be the Marder 1A0 versus the BMP-1, but it doesn't matter all that much.
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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby MARDER » Sun 12 Feb 2017 22:53

wargamer1985 wrote:

I think that may be the Marder 1A0 versus the BMP-1, but it doesn't matter all that much.



You forgot that the marder is made out of tank steel offering much more effectif armor while bmp seris is a magnesium alloy that can be pend by .50 cal without a problem. Not to mention that bmp' s are a fiere hazard.

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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby HrcAk47 » Sun 12 Feb 2017 23:01

MARDER wrote:
wargamer1985 wrote:

I think that may be the Marder 1A0 versus the BMP-1, but it doesn't matter all that much.



You forgot that the marder is made out of tank steel offering much more effectif armor while bmp seris is a magnesium alloy that can be pend by .50 cal without a problem. Not to mention that bmp' s are a fiere hazard.


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Re: Leave no man behind: WGermany

Postby Sweedish_Gunner » Sun 12 Feb 2017 23:11

You got the BMP and BMD mixed up bud.
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