On the rebalance of air-to-air missiles

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FrangibleCover
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Re: On the rebalance of air-to-air missiles

Postby FrangibleCover » Fri 17 Feb 2017 20:25

MARDER wrote:Adjusting missel dmg also means plane hp has to be adjusted.

How can a singel engine mig 21 be as taugth as two engine mig 29?

Just slaping more he on rockets wont solve the problem.

I suggested this and had it pointed out that in the majority of twin engined aircraft in game if you take out one engine the loss of blade containment will throw large quantities of metal through the other one. Essentially there's no particular damage control benefit unless you're in an Il-28.

Having thought on this, I think that there's one more aircraft in Wargame that might have the engines far enough apart to get a slight survivability boost:
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I don't think that this post will be popular :lol:
What if Wargame stuck to timeframe?
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Re: On the rebalance of air-to-air missiles

Postby Guggy » Fri 17 Feb 2017 20:29

Su27 would qualify too then I think :p

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Re: On the rebalance of air-to-air missiles

Postby MARDER » Fri 17 Feb 2017 20:44

Guggy wrote:
MARDER wrote:Adjusting missel dmg also means plane hp has to be adjusted.

How can a singel engine mig 21 be as taugth as two engine mig 29?

Just slaping more he on rockets wont solve the problem.


Tried this with modding, low ECM early jets get so hard countered by AA fire that it's hilarious and sad at the same time. 6 hp and low ECM just falls apart.



Only because there is a unite in game it means not that it has to be god all the time. pros and cons. Witch is much better then waht is now in game.

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Re: On the rebalance of air-to-air missiles

Postby HrcAk47 » Fri 17 Feb 2017 20:47

MARDER wrote:Adjusting missel dmg also means plane hp has to be adjusted.

How can a singel engine mig 21 be as taugth as two engine mig 29?

Just slaping more he on rockets wont solve the problem.



This isn't simply "slapping on HE to more rockets", this is making more planes viable (MiG-23 line, Gripen, bunch of F-16 variants and a few others), and making SARH planes more competitive in the face of huge (over)proliferation of FnF MRAAMs. To be honest, Gripen (and the Norwegian statclone F-16) is shit just because AIM-9L has 4 HE. And MiG-23s are shit because they have 5+4 HE (or sometimes 5+3 HE) rockets which are just painful to have. These planes won't magically become retardedly good immediately afterwards, but will become usable. With good veterancy and good price, they will become a situational pick that can achieve something, sometimes.

As for 1 engine vs. 2 engine, such division will have greater consequences, and will primarily hurt Blufor, as they rely on F-16 variants significantly more than Redfor relies on MiG-21 variants.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: On the rebalance of air-to-air missiles

Postby Guggy » Fri 17 Feb 2017 20:51

Yeah, I'd just do a generational rule that has some cherry-picked exceptions.

But honestly from a balance perspective, the spirit of the suggestions in the OP are probably the easiest to implement smoothly. Doing the hp changes in addition would just hurt alot of the planes being buffed.

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Re: On the rebalance of air-to-air missiles

Postby HrcAk47 » Fri 17 Feb 2017 20:59

Slightly updated the OP spreadsheet, sticking one here as well. Thanks Xeno for the info on the early AIM-9 warheads.

(this doesn't mean I approve of LRAAMs, but I just stuck them here for size reference).
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The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: On the rebalance of air-to-air missiles

Postby MARDER » Fri 17 Feb 2017 20:59

HrcAk47 wrote:
MARDER wrote:Adjusting missel dmg also means plane hp has to be adjusted.

How can a singel engine mig 21 be as taugth as two engine mig 29?

Just slaping more he on rockets wont solve the problem.



This isn't simply "slapping on HE to more rockets", this is making more planes viable (MiG-23 line, Gripen, bunch of F-16 variants and a few others), and making SARH planes more competitive in the face of huge (over)proliferation of FnF MRAAMs. To be honest, Gripen (and the Norwegian statclone F-16) is shit just because AIM-9L has 4 HE. And MiG-23s are shit because they have 5+4 HE (or sometimes 5+3 HE) rockets which are just painful to have. These planes won't magically become retardedly good immediately afterwards, but will become usable. With good veterancy and good price, they will become a situational pick that can achieve something, sometimes.

As for 1 engine vs. 2 engine, such division will have greater consequences, and will primarily hurt Blufor, as they rely on F-16 variants significantly more than Redfor relies on MiG-21 variants.



Who gets hurt or not dosent matter at all what matters is that it makes sense.

Giving ability to planes or tanks or inf that they not had in RL witch the units a re representation of hurts the whole concept.

Your have your cheap one engine plane for low threat environment and the expensive two engine one for high threat environment.
Choose who you send where.

Not to mention that SPAAGs and SAMs get more effective and dont waste horrendous amounts of ammo.

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Re: On the rebalance of air-to-air missiles

Postby FoxZz » Sun 19 Feb 2017 20:33

I don't think AMRAAM, the R77 and Derby should go to 6HE, it would be toxic gameplay wise; And I don't think either we should have 7HE or 8HE missiles for the same reasons, except maybe the Phoenix.

5 HE should go up to 25kg HE warhead. Above 25kg warhead, 6HE. That's it.
Last edited by FoxZz on Sun 19 Feb 2017 20:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: On the rebalance of air-to-air missiles

Postby orcbuster » Sun 19 Feb 2017 20:45

Have you accounted for type of warhead? (fragmentation, continous rod, etc)
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Re: On the rebalance of air-to-air missiles

Postby orcbuster » Sun 19 Feb 2017 20:46

FoxZz wrote:I don't think AMRAAM, the R77 and Derby should go to 6HE, it would be toxic gameplay wise; And I don't think either we should have 7HE or 8HE missiles for the same reasons, except maybe the Phoenix.

5 HE should go up to 25 HE warhead. Above 25kg warhead, 6HE. That's it.


7 HE means possible oneshot so yeah slippery slope
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