Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

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HrcAk47
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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby HrcAk47 » Tue 28 Mar 2017 11:56

Fade2Gray wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:If a unit list culling should be done, then it should be done fairly for all. Say, a 1991 absolute deadline, and we work from there. No expedited shipments, no accelerated development. And let's see what happens.


Nah, especially sure certain factions (ie Juche) they desperately need the timeline pushed up a touch. Cat C, D, and everything older is what should be getting the ax.

All these older tanks and infantry just clutter up things and hardly, if ever, see the light of day unless you make molni happy by hosting an era game.


Juche isn't "finished" by 1991 criteria, even (I want that MiG-29A 9.13 ASF). And the infantry could definitely be made better.

And I disagree on "clutter". Everybody kept the old junk in active role, or in ready reserve for the "big war". It can be useful if rolled into Vehicle tab.
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Seryn » Tue 28 Mar 2017 16:27

HrcAk47 wrote:
Fade2Gray wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:If a unit list culling should be done, then it should be done fairly for all. Say, a 1991 absolute deadline, and we work from there. No expedited shipments, no accelerated development. And let's see what happens.


Nah, especially sure certain factions (ie Juche) they desperately need the timeline pushed up a touch. Cat C, D, and everything older is what should be getting the ax.

All these older tanks and infantry just clutter up things and hardly, if ever, see the light of day unless you make molni happy by hosting an era game.


Juche isn't "finished" by 1991 criteria, even (I want that MiG-29A 9.13 ASF). And the infantry could definitely be made better.

And I disagree on "clutter". Everybody kept the old junk in active role, or in ready reserve for the "big war". It can be useful if rolled into Vehicle tab.


My favorite Veh Tabs are Bundeswehr, US and PLA for a Reason

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Xeno426 » Tue 28 Mar 2017 18:14

HrcAk47 wrote:Juche isn't "finished" by 1991 criteria, even (I want that MiG-29A 9.13 ASF). And the infantry could definitely be made better.

Wouldn't be any different from the 9.12Bs they got, since the Gardenya jammer wasn't included in the package.

HrcAk47 wrote:And I disagree on "clutter". Everybody kept the old junk in active role, or in ready reserve for the "big war". It can be useful if rolled into Vehicle tab.

There is a massive amount of units in the game, far more than can be reasonably balanced. There's a lot of units that butt into the niche available to other units in the same nation as well (hello USSR tank tab). There's also lots of units that, by the early 90's, were mothballed and just waste design space to be included in the game.

[EDIT]
Modified for clarity
Last edited by Xeno426 on Tue 28 Mar 2017 20:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby HrcAk47 » Tue 28 Mar 2017 19:47

Xeno426 wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:Juche isn't "finished" by 1991 criteria, even (I want that MiG-29A 9.13 ASF). And the infantry could definitely be made better.

Wouldn't be any different from the 9.12Bs they got, since the Gardenya jammer wasn't included in the package.

HrcAk47 wrote:And I disagree on "clutter". Everybody kept the old junk in active role, or in ready reserve for the "big war". It can be useful if rolled into Vehicle tab.

There is a massive amount of units in the game, far more than can be reasonably balanced. There's a lot of units that the niche available to other units in the same nation as well (hello USSR tank tab). There's also lots of units that, by the early 90's, were mothballed and just waste design space to be included in the game.


Can the air marshal simply "gift" the +10% ECM to the nation with absolutely the worst gear in game bar none, which could be plausibly justified by the obscurity of the NK Air Force?
The SEAD never bothered me anyway.

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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Mike » Tue 28 Mar 2017 19:55

Xeno426 wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:And I disagree on "clutter". Everybody kept the old junk in active role, or in ready reserve for the "big war". It can be useful if rolled into Vehicle tab.

There is a massive amount of units in the game, far more than can be reasonably balanced. There's a lot of units that the niche available to other units in the same nation as well (hello USSR tank tab). There's also lots of units that, by the early 90's, were mothballed and just waste design space to be included in the game.


Plus Wargame is supposed to model "meeting engagements" I don't think the Soviets would've lead the charge with T-55As.
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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby HrcAk47 » Tue 28 Mar 2017 20:34

Mike wrote:
Xeno426 wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:And I disagree on "clutter". Everybody kept the old junk in active role, or in ready reserve for the "big war". It can be useful if rolled into Vehicle tab.

There is a massive amount of units in the game, far more than can be reasonably balanced. There's a lot of units that the niche available to other units in the same nation as well (hello USSR tank tab). There's also lots of units that, by the early 90's, were mothballed and just waste design space to be included in the game.


Plus Wargame is supposed to model "meeting engagements" I don't think the Soviets would've lead the charge with T-55As.


Czechs, East Germans, Polish, Yugoslavs would.

For the "less fortunate" nations, even though having a "better option" available (say, Merida, AM2, Igman) doesn't necessarily mean the older one would simply get scrapped or simply cease to exist. T-55A rules.
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Re: Why does the Finnish F/A-18C Have better ECM?

Postby Fade2Gray » Tue 28 Mar 2017 23:53

Xeno426 wrote:
HrcAk47 wrote:And I disagree on "clutter". Everybody kept the old junk in active role, or in ready reserve for the "big war". It can be useful if rolled into Vehicle tab.

There is a massive amount of units in the game, far more than can be reasonably balanced. There's a lot of units that butt into the niche available to other units in the same nation as well (hello USSR tank tab). There's also lots of units that, by the early 90's, were mothballed and just waste design space to be included in the game.


Bingo. Going from game play point of view, having all those units in is pointless. The vast majority are complete and utter noob traps and serve no real purpose, at all. Nor will they in the vehicle tab, which is also cluttered. I dare say that the vast majority of the units dumped into the vehicle tab would stay unused because they would be competing against established picks that have been there for awhile now.

Seriously, the "dump them in the VEH tab" is like a fallacy argument nowadays, it is just better to remove the vast majority of Cat C units from the game.

HrcAk47 wrote:
Mike wrote:Plus Wargame is supposed to model "meeting engagements" I don't think the Soviets would've lead the charge with T-55As.


Czechs, East Germans, Polish, Yugoslavs would.

For the "less fortunate" nations, even though having a "better option" available (say, Merida, AM2, Igman) doesn't necessarily mean the older one would simply get scrapped or simply cease to exist. T-55A rules.


This is why I'm so glad that RD extended the timeline like it did, because it made all factions fairly variable (tho the DLC factions after the Netherlands went straight into memedom OPness) and if anything have some sort of niche. Grabbed, Red Dragons are still horribly gimped, but NSWP is actually usable thanks to this extended timeline. NSWP was worthless in ALB other than as a Cat C spam deck in niche situations (or worse yet, able to beat Cat A decks in competitive play just because of SPAM), and I'm sorry, but fuck that. For game play purposes I want all coalitions to be at least somewhat viable, not gimmicks for those who like to role play.

tl;dr: Cutting T-55As and all the rest of the Cat C trash from the game would not effect anything, other than making it easier to balance the rest.
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